The Role Of Mystics in the 21st Century

Introducing people of all ages to mythology... in pre-college educational curricula, youth orgs, the media, etc. Share your knowledge, stories, unit and lesson plans, techniques, and more.

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Raphael
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Post by Raphael »

With the result it is essentially the 'madmen' like Hitler that are visible, loudly, vocally clamouring for our attentions and the mystic is silent or because they are misunderstood, they are unsupported.

Therefore it should not be surprising that a world no longer revered as mystical is descending into chaos and madness.

namaste

Raphael

ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...<br>God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.

Evinnra
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Post by Evinnra »

pssst..... <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">
The riddle didn't state it was the mystic who knew when to keep his/her mouth shut.

_________________


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Evinnra on 2006-03-29 07:04 ]</font>

Raphael
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Post by Raphael »

Thus...mystic or madman is in the eye of the beholder.

Is it not?

Ask a Christian if Mohammed was a mystic or a madman.

namaste

Raphael
ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...<br>God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.

neiel
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Post by neiel »

Raphael

I disagree, we can call an apple an orange, but it doesn't make it one; in my opinion, madness and mysticism refer to two different things

my suspicion is that Mohammed was probably pretty-much 'together'

of course, the way his teachings have been transmitted over the centuries has varied, as with any others

as Campbell, for instance, recognised, the body of knowledge over the centuries has tended to point towards the same set of, let's call them understandings, as lots of people have trouble with the word 'truth' <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

i.e. once we 'correct' for culture-specific normative teachings ("how to live well within the social norms of this society", with "well" being defined as some combination of 'good for you', 'good for your neighbours' and 'good for "society" [rulers]), the intersection of spiritual/mythical teachings generally address the issue of how to live a good life in general, how to be a psychologically-integrated wise and happy person

my reading - from a distance - of Mohammed's teachings is that he scored reasonably highly on having understood the way people and the world work - even the word 'Islam', I believe, translates to something which is a useful guideline

all people are at least partly 'mad', which we could over-simplify to mean that we are operating from a set of false (or at most only partly correct) axioms about life the universe and everything

a mystic who believed that atoms have consciousness would be approximately as mad as a christian who believed that god has a white beard and lives on a cloud

or anyone who thinks england are sure to win the world cup

a mystic who believed in the fundamental unity of existance would be approximately as sane as a christian who believed that "love your neighbour as your self, but remember to mind your own business" was good advice

or someone who thought that england have *some* chance of winning the world cup <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

PS the world isn't descending into chaos and madness, YOU are, it's a projection you're making from the place you're in on the journey that you've been brave enough to undertake (which is easy to witness from your postings over the last few months),

if it's any consolation, from what I've read of your posts up til now, I suspect you'll come back out of the forest OK

or, as a friend reminded me recently, why shouldn't we be more than satisfied with:

water to dandle me, grass to grow for me, trees to talk
to me, sky to sing to me, birds and a white light
in the back of my mind to guide me


alternatively, as Max Ehrmann reminds us:

"With all its sham, drudgery and
broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world."


eventually, after entering the forest "at the darkest point", if we are lucky enough, we come back home.

most sincerely, good luck on your journey.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: neiel on 2006-05-04 16:31 ]</font>

Raphael
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Post by Raphael »

On 2006-05-04 15:53, neiel wrote:
Raphael

I disagree, we can call an apple an orange, but it doesn't make it one; in my opinion, madness and mysticism refer to two different things
You then disagree with everything Jung wrote about...and everything ever written about duality.
The entire Judaeo/Christian myth is based on the concept of good and evil, or the mystic and the madman.
my suspicion is that Mohammed was probably pretty-much 'together' of course, the way his teachings have been transmitted over the centuries has varied, as with any others

as Campbell, for instance, recognised, the body of knowledge over the centuries has tended to point towards the same set of, let's call them understandings, as lots of people have trouble with the word 'truth' <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
I think you assumed I was slammin' Mohammed, Neiel.
What I was actually referring to is the FACT that Islam says Jesus was NOT the Messiah, just a Prophet.

This is one of the reasons they have fought for centuries.
And why does Israel fight with Egypt?
Because Judaism says there was an Exodus but yet in Egyptian history the 'Event' that marks a abrupt change in HIStory, never occurred.

Imagine living beside a neighbor who claims something happened long ago defining your property division, i.e. the Exodus, when in fact it did not happen the way THEY say.
Imagine having a neighbor like that.
i.e. once we 'correct' for culture-specific normative teachings ("how to live well within the social norms of this society", with "well" being defined as some combination of 'good for you', 'good for your neighbours' and 'good for "society" [rulers]), the intersection of spiritual/mythical teachings generally address the issue of how to live a good life in general, how to be a psychologically-integrated wise and happy person
What myth and scripture 'correct' for neiel are the stories of man vs. nature specific to that culture's environment provided by their local Mother Nature. Our Mothers therefore present themselves a little differently to each culture specific to the climate for that region.
my reading - from a distance - of Mohammed's teachings is that he scored reasonably highly on having understood the way people and the world work - even the word 'Islam', I believe, translates to something which is a useful guideline
He ‘tapped’ into the patterns.
all people are at least partly 'mad', which we could over-simplify to mean that we are operating from a set of false (or at most only partly correct) axioms about life the universe and everything
Jesus vs. Satan/Judas, Yin vs. Yang, Odin vs. Loki, Angra Mainyu vs. Spenta Mainyu
In my eyes, at a distance…same thing.
a mystic who believed that atoms have consciousness would be approximately as mad as a christian who believed that god has a white beard and lives on a cloud

or anyone who thinks england are sure to win the world cup


Unfair comparison I think.
The mystic is right on…the Christian and English Soccer Fan are both delusional.
a mystic who believed in the fundamental unity of existance would be approximately as sane as a christian who believed that "love your neighbour as your self, but remember to mind your own business" was good advice

or someone who thought that england have *some* chance of winning the world cup <IMG SRC="/forum/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
I agree. We must give the Christian and the Soccer fan some Hope.
Hope is the result of Faith displacing the Truth.
We live our lives hoping the truth will be revealed to us, in the end.
PS the world isn't descending into chaos and madness, YOU are, it's a projection you're making from the place you're in on the journey that you've been brave enough to undertake (which is easy to witness from your postings over the last few months),

if it's any consolation, from what I've read of your posts up til now, I suspect you'll come back out of the forest OK
One perspective of 6+ billion people.
Shall we ask people in Iraq how they see their world?
The entire US vs Iraq affair is based on the fact that Islam does in fact see the world as descending into madness.
Wait the entire Judaeo/Christian/Islam theology confirms this.
Ever read revelations?

I understand and am aware and acknowledge the concept of projection neiel, but do you understand and acknowledge that perhaps there might be people in the world who see ‘script’ure as script?
or, as a friend reminded me recently, why shouldn't we be more than satisfied with:

water to dandle me, grass to grow for me, trees to talk
to me, sky to sing to me, birds and a white light
in the back of my mind to guide me


alternatively, as Max Ehrmann reminds us:

"With all its sham, drudgery and
broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world."


eventually, after entering the forest "at the darkest point", if we are lucky enough, we come back home.

most sincerely, good luck on your journey.
Love those quotes they ring true.

Many a civilizations’ demise is linked to deforestation neiel.
In which forest do I find myself?
I may never leave the forest, where the wisdom of the Tree of Life resides.

The Tree of Knowledge however could use a real good prune, its branches and roots have stolen valuable energy and resources from the Tree of Life.

Did you know neiel that there were two trees in Eden?
What does it say about the western cultures that ate from Knowledge and not Life?
Did you know only western religions talk of a Tree of Knowledge?

All others have a Tree of Life in their myth.
Even the Kabbalists, which study the ‘secrets’ of mystical Judaism, revere the Tree of Life NOT Knowledge.

This brings us back to the beginning of my response here.
Those two Trees symbolize the primary duality that Joseph Campbell refers to when he suggests, “when we leave the transcendent we enter the field of pairs and opposites”.

And I will go one step further to bring this concept into the 21st century.

This primary duality that exists is between Relativity and Quantum.
Big and small.
Outer and inner.

Plato’s macrocosm and the microcosm.

Namaste

Raphael
ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...<br>God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.

creekmary
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Post by creekmary »

What if atoms did have consciousness? How fine does a unit have to be before it becomes conscious?

Susan


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Post by Raphael »

On 2006-05-09 00:38, creekmary wrote:
What if atoms did have consciousness? How fine does a unit have to be before it becomes conscious?

Susan
This is exactly what the shaman believes Susan.
And I suspect you do too.

And when we consider the debate that rages between the 'right to lifers' vs. the 'right to choose' we see again the duality of macrocosm and microcosm.

We have a system trying to impart from the outside, external from the individual a macrocosmic morality.
But the right to choose, 'free will' is driven by the inner voices of the individual.
It becomes a microcosmic decision, which in turn affects the macrocosmic collective, just as Plato and Socrates suggested.

In the west we have adopted a good guy with the white hat vs. the evil entity wearing the black hat.
In the east the black hat vs. white hat is represented by the two forces that are in a constant dance with one another.
The two forces of Yin and Yang are not seen as good and evil however they are seen as essential to one another, these two forces represented by black and white, together comprise a whole. (but there are other forces at work, depicted by the the 2 fish eyes of the symbol.

Yin and Yang are the forces I believe to be electro-magnetism and nuclear weak. These two forces that are in a constant dance physics calls the Electro-Weak cha, cha, cha.
These two forces I also believe to be responsible...for the concept of Time.

And the shaman reduces this concept of negative and positive to an even more rudimentary source.

Everything is the way it is meant to be.
And the Hopi prophecies confirm this.

Susan do you think I can connect the Shaman’s Medicine Wheel to the esoteric Kabbalah, in which the ten sephiroth on the Tree of Life represent different aspects of God?
I believe I can.

When you realize meso-american history has a similar time line as Egypt or may even predate the 'cradle civilizations' this connection, the medicine wheel to the Tree of Life is not a far-fetched notion.

Western HIStory of course would not like such a revelation of truth.

What happens then to our version of HIStory?

Namaste

Raphael

ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...<br>God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.

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Post by creekmary »

Maybe these people would know:
http://www.healingdoc.com/shamanic-heal ... reat06.php

Susan

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Post by Raphael »

On 2006-05-10 20:10, creekmary wrote:
Maybe these people would know:
http://www.healingdoc.com/shamanic-heal ... reat06.php
Susan

In the Eastern Congo alone, the casualties of war on each single day equal the number of deaths on September 11th in New York.

Is everything connected Susan?
Maybe. Let us investigate.

I see they offer a workshop Memorial Day Weekend and from the website I did determine there does indeed appear to be a ‘prophet’ motive or is it profit?
Cost Per Person: $550 payable to Walking Stick Foundation. This is an ALL-INCLUSIVE fee, covering tuition, materials, camping-out lodging, all meals, plus round-trip transportation from the Albuquerque Airport.

Lodging: Lodging at the Walking Stick Educational Center is limited to spacious single and double-occupancy tents (with comfortable mats, sleeping bags, pillows provided), or motels at your own expense in the nearby village of Cuba, approximately ten miles away.

Facilities: Facilities are rustic, with limited water supply, two indoor bathrooms, four outdoor enclosed chemical toilets, limited showers, indoor dining and meeting hall, and 84 acres of untouched wilderness bordering on national forest.
Prophet or Profit I ponder?

So for $550 you are offered 2 full days of camping with meals provided. Working around a firehall I know you can feed adult men very well for about $10 per day. And while eating together the wealth of information and wisdom we share and offer one another is never viewed as a commodity to be bought or sold.

Susan maybe you can follow my ancient wisdom.

I believe when we ‘overcharge’ for our TIME a universal credit occurs. When we overcharge we are fallen men and women. We are like sands in an hourglass and when the sand accumulates we will have reached the state known as ‘maximum entropy’. Other terms for this are ‘heat death’ and ‘matter chaos’. We have always fallen victim to those desires that will take those excessive false profits to satisfy ‘material’ urges.

Entropy can be thought of as an energy footprint. In the physical world we leave footprints, fingerprints and civilizations as reminders and proof of having been there. In the energetic world that we cannot see I suggest we also leave a marker of our existence, of having used a certain quantity of energy. Black Holes located everywhere within galaxies are very much like recording devices according to Stephen Hawking.

These invisible or visible trails of entropy (the energy we each use) that we leave behind I suggest is the metaphorical ‘sin’.

And what false and excessive profits to the individual allow the individual to buy into is a graven image culture. It is a ‘lifestyle’ that serves our lower nature, desiring material comforts. These comforts whose source is Mother Earth represent a victory of some sorts over the forces of nature that for millennia kicked our butt. And ever since the patriarchal temple priests wrestled control from the goddess worshipping cultures, man has dominated, was given dominion over the Earth Mother in scripture. But that is the relationship we must acknowledge if we truly want to move forward and survive into the future with our dignity and collective self-esteem intact.

Every bank account in the world represents a lien against our Mother Earth. This is a concept we must wrap our egotistical little minds around.

The USA with its massive debt can only satisfy and pay its debts one way…by harvesting the earth above and below the firmament.
"duh, Pardon me pardner but down here in Texass, there is another way to pay off a debt. Set up the most intricate and elaborate military industrial complex the world has ever seen and take control of the energy". - King George ‘I am the burning’ Bush.

So the real problem we have in a world being nurtured toward a collective of lifestyles desiring material comforts far beyond their NEEDS is that each individual has also placed a lien against his fellow man.
Can you deny that capitalism is just not imperialism or colonialism, which has been cloaked, repackaged and made palatable for a culture hell bent on consuming itself out of existence? How else are we going to keep the overstimulated hogs into coming back to the trough unless you sugar coat their feed?

As an example.
If you have not seen the film “Darwins Nightmare” I suggest you do. Reality bites back.
Origins of the Nightmare
The idea of this film was born during my research on another documentary, KISANGANI DIARY that follows Rwandese refugees in the midst of the Congolese rebellion. In 1997, I witnessed for the first time the bizarre juxtaposition of two gigantic airplanes, both bursting with food. The first cargo jet brought 45 tons of yellow peas from America to feed the refugees in the nearby UN camps. The second plane took off for the European Union, weight with 50 tons of fresh fish.
I met the Russian pilots and we became "kamarads". But soon it turned out that the rescue planes with yellow peas also carried arms to the same destinations, so that the same refugees that were benefiting from the yellow peas could be shot at later during the nights.
In the mornings, my trembling camera saw in this stinking jungle destroyed camps and bodies.

First hand knowledge of the story of such a cynical reality became the trigger for DARWIN’S NIGHTMARE, my longest ever cinematographic commitment.
http://www.1001productions.net/LM/DAR/Darwin1.html
So how many affluent fat hogs would come back for another feed of Nile perch fillets if they saw this film before they were seated down to their buffet?
Essentially the film is about the trade that goes on in Africa around Lake Victoria. Guns, ammunitions and yellow peas traded for Nile Perch fillets. Here we have another example of man’s creative mind, experimenting with nature leading to a ‘hell on earth’.
It is in the film where we see what is done with the perch carcasses after the fillets have been iced and are off to the finest restaurants that all is revealed.
To the educated movie seer, the analogy to Gandhi who rebelled against his colonial masters, Britain is obvious. Britain who was very instrumental in setting up the state of Israel is also in Iraq, would this be a coincidence?
Gandhi could see the inequalities that existed where the Indian cotton was shipped to Britain and the manufacture of raw goods into textiles enhanced British life while exploiting the Indian who would purchase the finished products back from Britain. Gandhi simply suggested that Indians assumed that role thereby enhancing the life of Indians and not their Brit masters, essentially eliminate the Prophet known as the middleman.

Compare this to what is happening in shadowy Africa today.
The Corporate nameless masters, and Corporations are an unaccountable entity, this deferring of responsibility was a nice ploy by the Colonial masters to disguise who They are. Today these 'Energy Thieves' take the raw fillets (the cotton) and the Prophets using alchemy motivated by Profits using black ink and not red, these financial wizards and gurus can indeed turn these fillets into yellow peas, guns and munitions. These are the ‘textiles’ being traded for. What wizardry. The obvious parallel here is to India ... what if the fishing industry around Lake Victoria eliminated the middleman? The nameless Corporations...are the THEY who sell stock to us.
Shit, I just realized WE are THEY!!!
Thus what if the Africans chose to feed each other first, and traded only the excess fillets?
Can we really delude ourselves much longer into believing the developed world is making a positive difference in the third world?

Yes, there I have provided more proof that we have not evolved as a collective; Gandhi’s efforts appear to have been in vain. He only managed to exorcise the demons from India. They simply fled to another nation.

Here is that ancient wisdom revealed to me by those Greeks from long ago Susan.
We were told to "pass down or bequeath to our children the earth as unchanged as possible".
Today the phrase often heard and I suggest it resonates with the same profound mythical truth is “our children do not inherit the earth from us, we borrow the future from them”.
What this infers, in light of what ‘entropy’ actually might suggest is that we should only fulfill essential needs thereby guaranteeing a balance by allowing unencumbered access to essential energy ‘needs’ for everyone.
Simply a world that looked after everyone’s essential needs first would be more Eden like.
I feel.
But we all continue to 'fall' victim to our desires, fulfilling individual illusions of comfort, and the wealthy creating even more wealth disparity.

So to come full circle back to the above-mentioned Prophets in the website you offered to me Susan, a website highlighting a group celebrating the apparent marriage of Shaman/Kabbalah belief, can we now begin to understand and investigate the dynamics of selling ‘knowledge and wisdom’ to make the Earth better place to live?
Is there a paradox?

When we investigate the true exchange of energy that takes place another perspective is revealed. Let us follow the money = energy trail. This technique works very well if you believe in the saying “show me an empire and I will show you where a crime has been committed”.
The people who want to come to the seminar must pay $550 plus other expenses for 2 days of illumination. I will suggest based on the above ‘rustic’ accommodations as described that the hosts are asking an excessive fee. An excessive fee created that has a ripple effect like all waves of thought and action do, and will in effect, cause the individual who wants to attend, the need to reach into his pockets which can be very deep indeed.
The wannabe initiate's pockets extending all the way down into the bowels of Mother Earth. This is where all our pockets lead. Those of us who were granted western wear tend to have deeper pockets. As I suggested some are very deep pockets and these mines are exploited by the minds. But there are many people Susan who were crafted only a loin cloth, no pockets at all and their pockets or access to mineral wealth is limited to only what they find, what life leaves them. Or what discarded western wear they may find.
Now if these above Prophets turn around and take their excessive Profits and they spread them like seeds, cast them to the winds, if they do indeed continue to spread the word not enriching themselves any more than those they claim to inspire, I would eat my words.
But immediately Monsanto and DNA research confirm what I know, we will all be eating Genetically Modified foods, which will lead to more environmental problems.

Ancient wisdom cries out "its not wise to fool with Mother Nature!!!"

And if talk is indeed cheap why do they, the Prophets, profit so much?
Is this what is meant by the ‘sweat of their brow’, creating a sweatlodge for us?
What they offer can be found for free is the point I would like to make Susan, Jesus and Buddha would agree, go within…and save the earth and yourself.
However I do admit we are confronted with a difficult paradox, one that is difficult to work through. But as always you will be rewarded with a valuable life's lesson.
What price would you put on 'helping' your fellow man?

Now flying around on jet planes, globetrotting, going from workshop to workshop can in fact be proven to contribute to the greenhouse gases, which are harmful to the ozone, the environment, plankton, plants and eventually us. True?
Imagine 6 billion people becoming enlightened in this manner flying around the world; obviously we are not getting it. I wish them luck in spreading their ‘gospel’, but I will suggest Susan if I can come to the same conclusions they have…i.e suggesting a link exists between the Inca, Shamans, the Kabbalah and therefore Judaism, in a journey that took an intensive two years without leaving my inner temple, I will therefore suggest stay at home and look within the temple you have constructed for yourself.
At absolutely no hidden costs to the environment. Only benefits. Pay no fee, stay home, kill growth, save the earth.

It takes a lifetime to learn how to manage your own energy center, which is essentially a fusion reactor.

In conclusion I feel many people, unknowingly, participate in the pursuit of false Profits following the false Prophets that only serve to lead us out of Eden, that Garden given to us long ago, beginning with a Golden Age.

Entropy is the sin that accumulates leading to an ‘event’. There is a formula Hawking has discovered.
Maximum entropy = 25%
That is 1/4 of 100.
Or think of it as 4 distinct Ages.

The Greeks were correct; we did not heed their wise ancient wisdom.
The Iron Age is upon us.
And how many of us will survive into the Heroic Age?

Thanks Susan for providing a link to a thought that I needed to express.
I feel.
I think.
I am.

Namaste

Raphael

p.s. Never ever order Nile perch.
Make the Africans eat their own fish I say.

Trade less, save Africa!
Said to be the birthplace of mankind, "The Great Lakes Region" is the green, fertile and mineral rich center of Africa.
The region is also known for its unique wild life, snowy volcanoes and famous National Parks. At the same time, it is truly the "Heart of Darkness" of our world.
Massive epidemics, food shortages and of course civil wars rage in this area, taking place in a kind of moral oblivion. These armed conflicts are the deadliest ones in history since the Second World War.

In the Eastern Congo alone, the casualties of war on each single day equal the number of deaths on September 11th in New York.

If not totally ignored, the uncountable wars are often qualified as "tribal conflicts", like those of Rwanda, Burundi or Sudan. The hidden causes of such troubles are, in most cases, imperialistic interests in natural resources.
Why do we not see on the front pages or on mainstream TV the media crying out the words, giving a voice to those being slaughtered in Africa the words "Never Again!!!!!!?"
As a matter of fact how many millions have been slaughtered worldwide since World War II ended?
Silently, the numbers are never posted nor tallied showing who is winning this silent war our collective consciousness allows.
Think about it.
Is this a slogan reserved only for the Chosen? The Judaeo/Christian/Islamic heir apparents to Gaia?
Curious observation.
____________
ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...
God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy…

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raphael on 2006-05-18 11:21 ]</font>

creekmary
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Post by creekmary »

Well, I wouldn't know if they are any good or not, but it's an indication there are other people looking in the same direction. Maybe you can get them to talk like regular people without charging for conversation. Maybe you can charge them back.

Susan

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Post by creekmary »

And the thing is, though, they wouldn't be able to do it if there weren't people willing to pay for enlightment.

Dang. Poor people. Here they are just trying to earn a living and they're becomming an example...lol....

Susan

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Post by Raphael »

On 2006-05-21 04:56, creekmary wrote:
And the thing is, though, they wouldn't be able to do it if there weren't people willing to pay for enlightment.

Dang. Poor people. Here they are just trying to earn a living and they're becomming an example...lol....

Susan
Susan absolutely.

All people are on a journey fulfilling a spiritual need. Some are consciously aware and others are simply being led with the aid of their unconsciousness. (enter free will?)

With the marriage of the shaman to the Kaballah we end up with just another troll who has set up shop known as 'illumination'. Strategically situated under that bridge that everyone must pass by at some point in their lives.

Your response however reminds me of the that age old saying...

“Prostitution is the world's oldest profession.”

This of course is a metaphor for the Seller.
To which I reply wait, what about begging for it?
Did not someone perhaps ask for some booty first?
So which came first?
The buyer wanting something he desires or thinks he needs or a the seller recognizing a desire or need and fulfilling it?
But our culture has evolved / de-evolved to where almost every fantasy, every desire, every whim of whoopee is fulfilled. But yet in other places far from the epicenter of our own hearts in the jungles of shadowy Africa basic needs are not being met.
And I would simply define 'needs' as goods and services essential for life.

So human nature introduces the dynamic of the buyer and seller and barter.
And between buyer and seller exists a give and take dynamic.
May I remind you it is ‘better to give than to it is to receive’.
That is how I remember it.
So how does this relate to people who are willing to pay for enlightenment?

Buyers and Sellers soon created a marketplace to be followed by concepts of supply and demand and illusion.
The illusion of a true marketplace guided by a collective.
The illusion created by the corporations, states and church utilizing an advertising industry that recognizes it can in fact 'create illusory markets'.

So I am only suggesting that these Shaman /Kaballah Prophets are recognizing a real true need that everyone inherently shares in, many are seeking a spiritual fulfillment with answers. Fair enough.

But how much profit should the Prophets charge as gatekeepers to a gnosis / knowledge that can actually be found within yourself?
How much do we charge our fellow man for the map leading them back to their own heart?
How could this possibly fulfill our roles, as ‘we are our brother’s keeper’?

At what point does the Prophet become a prostitute, exceeding his needs, simply a seller of a commodity?
And at what point does the initiate stop paying the Trolls to fulfill his desires born of a lower nature?
Both occur simultaneously I will suggest when humanity truly defines and understands the profound difference between satisfying our desires and fulfilling our needs.

Sorry honey to drone on, but I am just a worker bee, and I am kept very busy by our matriarchal Queen. The symbol for our hive of activity which is composed of a matrix of hexagons is the Shatkona.

What is the Shatkona?

It is the six-pointed hexagram that fits nicely into a hexagon.
It represents the fiery activity of the drone merging as a collective with the cool and collected Queen.
In the Hindu religion, the hexagram is called the Shatkona, and is equivalent to the symbolism in ritual magick. The Shatkona is the combination of the Shiva kona (trikona, triangle), the symbol of the God Shiva, representing the element of fire, and the Shakti kona, representing the element of water. Together, they represent the union of male and female, and the heart chakra.

also

In Ritual Magick, the hexagon is called the Seal of Solomon, and represents Divine Union, being composed of a female, watery triangle, and a male, fiery triangle. The traditional elemental triangles of earth, air, water, and fire are derived from the seal.
When the points of a hexagram are connected, a hexagon is formed. Kabbalistically, the hexagram represents the Sefirah Tifaret, perfection.
So which came first, the architecture we find in nature or the pride and ego of man that tries to copy and emulate an energetic creative god?
We will find the patterns and the purpose of our nature in nature, which is why we were made stewards of Eden.

However as Joseph Campbell pointed out, Yahweh did not like being a gardener.
I agree, and I suggest he had bigger plans, he wanted to be a builder.

In conclusion maybe we should pay more attention to the messengers known as "the birds and the bees and the flowers and the trees and the moon up above and a thing called "Love". –H. Newman 1965

Namaste

Raphael


_________________
ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...
God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raphael on 2006-05-21 07:19 ]</font>

creekmary
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Location: Oklahoma, USA

Post by creekmary »

I still don't think there's anything inherently wrong with profit, or "increase". I've been thinking about it, and if mother nature did not believe in profit you wouldn't get ears of corn from just one seed or 20 cats out of just one kitten. I think mother nature believes in profit/increase. Like a stick is just a stick until you use it to murder someone.

There's more, but I need to run a minute..

Susan

Raphael
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Location: SPACETIME

Post by Raphael »

On 2006-05-23 22:01, creekmary wrote:
I still don't think there's anything inherently wrong with profit, or "increase". I've been thinking about it, and if mother nature did not believe in profit you wouldn't get ears of corn from just one seed or 20 cats out of just one kitten. I think mother nature believes in profit/increase. Like a stick is just a stick until you use it to murder someone.

There's more, but I need to run a minute..

Susan
Yes Susan, our collective Mother Nature did provide a bounty, but the Prophets have positioned themselves into a position where they are the ones who are to receive the bounty of the profits off naturally or manmade events.

I suggest everyone watch the eye-popping expose of the fishing industry centered on Lake Victoria in Africa called “Darwin’s Nightmare”.
This is a must see film for those in denial.
In denial about how the affluent, and the infamous ‘they’ who as it turns out is essentially ‘the collective us’ plays a part in how ‘trade’ has evolved. I am also, sadly a participant. baaaaaaaaa
http://www.1001productions.net/LM/DAR/Darwin1.html

As you know Susan the Greeks had a certain philosophy about man’s relationship with the earth, the intent was to leave the earth as unchanged as possible for the next generation.
2500 years later and people are now saying that ‘our children do not inherit the earth, we borrow the future from them’.
Same thing, isn’t it?

The spiritual polarity shift will occur when humanity acknowledges that every bank account is a lien against an elemental earth.
Throw in the what Einstein called the supreme laws of science, Thermodynamics, specifically the 2nd Law known as Entropy and you begin to understand the source of such a philosophy.

But if we do not by our own collective free will acknowledge this fact the actual ‘physcical’ geo-magnetic polarity shift will occur.
It will be an event of ‘Creator’ not Richter magnitude, well beyond any kind of seismic activity ever recorded before by any modern instrument, not recorded, but it was certainly seen or experienced by our ancestors.

Essentially I see a reversal of the magnetic field around the earth, along with shift in how the northern and southern axis orients itself.
This has happened 3 times before.

Here is another esoteric connection I believe worth investigation.
At the core of the earth we do not know for any certainty what lies there.
We have hardly penetrated the mantle with our best drills.
No possibility of remote cams to snoop around.
There are many theories as to what lies there.

Using myth I shall attempt to provide more insight to what may lie at the core of the earth.
Whatever it is, I think it may ‘rotate’ 180 degrees, the mass within will do a flip and it will be this event that triggers the prophesized ‘Apocalypse’.

So not unlike Gaea who in ‘rudimentary Greek myth’ was created by Chaos, our Earth Mother has managed to impregnate herself again by yet another immaculate conception.
And just before a child is to be born, as the new creation rotates, the babies head has actually moved further away from the mother’s heart and is now apparently ready to be born.

And when you think of one the first timepieces to manifest from the depths of the inner universe within a random individual and out through the connective tissue of someone’s mind the figure 8 shaped hourglass, the ‘egg-timer’ became manifest in ‘matter’. 8 being the symbol/number indicating infinity. An endless loop.
It is also the way the many creation stories are 'structured'.

Now it is no coincidence that the ‘egg’ timer analogy be used.
As we know with an ‘egg’ timer it appears to have a ‘fixed’ time built in. The flow rate has been determined by the size of the crystals passing through a pre-determined ‘opening’. It is a cycle that can repeat itself if an outside ‘force’ such as yourself or an energetic god can simply pick up the earth, err I mean ‘egg’ timer and rotate the machine to begin a new cycle.
Maybe the Earth’s core has been through time ‘solidifying’ and becoming ‘hard-boiled’, a new creation ready to be born…
Just a little food offered, to feed your thoughts Susan.

There is a reason things happen.

Cause ‘n’ Effect told me so.

Namaste

Raphael

p.s. walk don't run and time will not fly by.


_________________
ENERGY = GOD ... Share Him is the Message...
God can be neither created nor destroyed; he can only be transformed into other forms of God. However there is a penalty for committing sin, for transforming God and it is called Entropy.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Raphael on 2006-05-28 07:53 ]</font>

rodroth
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Location: Sweden

Post by rodroth »

As to the forest mentioned earlier... can one perspective perhaps be that the importance is not whether you find your way through, get lost or believe in the tree of Life in the center, but that you actually decide to search for the forest and dare enter it.

"You don't become a Christian by finding your path or your truth. You become a Christian by beginning to ask questions about the path and the truth." //KG Hammar, modern mystic and archbishop of the Church of Sweden.

Isn't it also marvellous how mystics of various traditions always got along better than the priests?

This referred to in Campbell's interviews, where he says that the modern priest is a civil servant of an institution, whereas a mystic is a spiritual servant of the mystery.

Then again, we must remember that mystics are focused on introspection, you see very few mystics doing the televangelist thing.



“Myth is an attempt to narrate a whole human experience, of which the purpose is too deep, going too deep in the blood and soul, for mental explanation or description.” //DH Lawrence

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