Joseph Campbell's Consciousness

Introducing people of all ages to mythology... in pre-college educational curricula, youth orgs, the media, etc. Share your knowledge, stories, unit and lesson plans, techniques, and more.

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Clemsy
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Post by Clemsy »

Hi Christina! Welcome to the JCF Forums! Very interesting posts.
1) Transcendence is not a theoretical experience
Alas, the Western mindset would relegate such experience to the category of 'anecdotal' and then summarily dismiss it. There has been encouraging movement away from this though and toward the concept of 'peak experience' which the athletes in my classes know all about. Their descriptions of such moments are not dissimilar from descriptions of transcendental experiences.

Cheers,
Clemsy
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

CarmelaBear
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Post by CarmelaBear »

Christina wrote:A little clarification to avoid misinterpretation...

1) Transcendence is not a theoretical experience
Exactly what is transcending what here?

Brains that actually function have a capacity to imagine and feel, and I know it is good to imagine and feel that our "minds" are transcending our bodies. Campbell, his associates and most of the members of this forum can attest to experience of this nature. However, such physical experience is not scientifically established evidence of the existence of a consciousness outside the functioning of the living brain. The science of consciousness is not even sure of the true nature of consciousness itself, never mind the possibility that it may exist independent of the body.

[quojte="Christina"]2) We can all cultivate and spiritually mature through intutivite experiences of soul, Spirit

3) Mythically (this is a JC site) Jesus, Odin, Buddha, Green Man, etc reflect our own personal quest to go beyond (ie let go or sacrifice) the limitations of the ego mind

4) For those interested there are body/earth minded practices to help awaken a deeper state of unity awareness, thereby helping stay centered and blissful despite the sufferings of the world (and the internal sufferings of an ego). [/quote]

Yes, on this most of us agree and we admire your work.
Christina wrote:My work involves helping veterans and others with post traumatic (and other) stress disorders, addictions, serious health conditions and suicidal tendencies (I am a veteran myself with 11 years of military experience). I have been fortunate to witness how getting people back in touch with themselves (connection with their inner nature) through nature, body minded exercise, dreamwork and holistic wellness practices has brought greater peace, joy and wellness to others.

From my experience when helping those near deaths door a sense of the light within (rather than the vehicle of the body) brings the greatest inner peace and preparedness for the transition that someday we will all take.

Mythologically we do sacrifice our obstacles (judgments, critical thinking, sense of isolation or disconnection) for greater joyful appreciation of life, others and ourselves.
Within the confines of words like "sense" or experience of a light, there is no doubt that we can infuse our experiences with great meaning and with comfort that helps us move from one event to another. However, we have this sense and we have this experience on account of a body and a brain that function. Without their functioning, the experience is no longer capable of being acknowledged. The evidence stops.

So, to experience joy by accepting abstract concepts is extremely helpful, especially to those who face suffering and death. In a fox hole, gods and angels abound.

I believe that myth is a metaphor for something we intuit but cannot observe or experience for ourselves. Much of myth is speculation, but admittedly useful speculation.

Suffering and death are the twin problems facing us every day. With each moment, we are aware of emotional experience (which is produced by the body and influenced greatly by a variety of chemicals that drive our brain and nervous system). After that experience, we begin to cogitate and interpret experience and fill in the experience with a story of that experience. I have no doubt that the mythological stories you experience have a life of their own, and I would never seek to deprive you of that experience. That's what myth does. It enriches experience.

My concern is that sometimes you may mistake the experience of the story for what actually happened and you may come to believe that what felt or seemed like a self outside the body was actually that. Maybe it was. Maybe it was not. We don't know.

A belief in a "transcendent" self is comforting, but it is only a belief.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

CarmelaBear
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Post by CarmelaBear »

No one denies the EXPERIENCE of something we call "transcendence". The emotion is real. The subjective awareness and memories are real. The interpretations reached by the cognitive brain are real.

What may or may not be real is the existence of another self, another self-aware consciousness outside the functioning brain that is attached to a nervous system full of remarkable chemicals that cause "spontaneous" imaginative experiences that are so convincing that people are known to jump out of windows and kill other folk in the false belief that the "experience" or trip is happening in our shared reality.

As a comfort in a foxhole of suffering and death, belief in a transcendent self and the beautiful compassion that is expressed is absolutely admirable. Most of us have need of such comfort in times of terrible suffering.

However, the experience remains entirely subjective. However valuable and useful, it is not on the level with scientific evidence of a consciousness that is not associated with and somehow produced by the functioning of the body.

In an abstract sense, of course, there is transcendence.

As mortal humans, however, we are not at all sure that we were here before we were born, that we are aware of anything when we are in dreamless sleep or in a deep coma, and we currently have no way of accessing any specific and verifiable data about self-aware consciousness after the body ceases to function.

It is your body that is transcending itself and letting you go along for the ride. It's a head trip. I'm sure it's very nice, and I'm sure it is related to a flood of brain chemicals produced by the body on its own drugs.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

CarmelaBear
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Post by CarmelaBear »

Clemsy wrote:Hi Christina! Welcome to the JCF Forums! Very interesting posts.
1) Transcendence is not a theoretical experience
Alas, the Western mindset would relegate such experience to the category of 'anecdotal' and then summarily dismiss it. There has been encouraging movement away from this though and toward the concept of 'peak experience' which the athletes in my classes know all about. Their descriptions of such moments are not dissimilar from descriptions of transcendental experiences.

Cheers,
Clemsy
Chemicals can cure cancer. There are chemicals produced by the body when we are in the presence of true belief and we practice meditation and ritual. These chemicals are so powerful that they, too, can cure disease or enhance athletic performance and motivate fetes of superlative performance on many levels, physical and cognitive.

The artificial distinction between what we feel and what we know for sure is not a dismissal of the experience. It is a dismissal of ideas that go beyond the anecdote.

There may be a disembodied self. Science can no longer discount the possibility. However, those of us who have to endure the smug admiration of suicidal deities are not impressed by the idea that the transcendent is more than abstraction and metaphor and the workings of a remarkably imaginative brain. If we want the "real deal" in transcendence of our own bodies, we find that there is nobody home.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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