Joseph Campbell's Consciousness

Introducing people of all ages to mythology... in pre-college educational curricula, youth orgs, the media, etc. Share your knowledge, stories, unit and lesson plans, techniques, and more.

Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

Samarra
MRT Leader
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Montes Carpatus
Contact:

Joe on Morality

Post by Samarra »

You asked: Is [morality] in any of Joe's works?

ImageImage
The answer is YES! This diagram is from the first chapter of Mythos; I borrowed the DVD from my local library. Joe calls it his “masterpiece”. The building at the top represents the institutionalization of MORALITY and SOCIAL CUSTOMS, which enforces the system below it. The bird above it is the idea of NATURE or NATURAL MORAL LAW. And finally, at the top is the idea of transcendence.

Everything below the line is the great mystery that informs all life. There is no knowledge of morality here… no notion of good or evil. It just is as it is. Notice how transcendence is in the form of the entire diagram. This is where you realize the unbiased nature of God or the Universe, but retain the knowledge that above the line, morality (or moralities) are alive and well and keep societies bound together.
Image

jonsjourney
Associate
Posts: 3191
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:24 pm
Location: Earth

Post by jonsjourney »

I hardly imagine that the 'supersupersupercomputer' (or whatever) that carries on all the calculations related to movement and interaction of galaxies and clouds of gasses millions of times larger than our entire solar system, over periods of time that (to us) encompass billions of years... is going to suddenly stop and purposely send a big rock to wipe out a bunch of insignificant two-legged microbes on some tiny speck of dust somewhere... but the idea that 'it' would makes for some real good marketing material!
I hate (ok, I don't hate it!!!) to keep coming back to this, but I am going to! If anyone out there has failed to read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams...please do yourself a favor and give it a shot. It is quirky British humor at its finest.

I bring it up again because of reading Andromeda's quote (the one listed above). In the book, the earth is destroyed to make way for an intergalactic superhighway project. At the same time, the main character, Arthur Dent's house is being destroyed to make room for a highway bypass. The house is being destroyed by cold, matter-of-fact people who are just there to do their job. The earth, at that same moment (coincidence?) about to be destroyed by cold, matter-of-fact aliens who are just there to do their job.

Their is no moral ambiguity. Bypasses just need to happen, so the Earth had to go. Adams' point to it all is pretty simple. Hang the sense of it and get on with living. This ties in nicely with Joe's 'Thou art That', which he so often quotes. For all we know, this is it. This is our one chance to live our life. To suspend your life for the potential promise of 'more to come' is to deny living in the moment.

The danger of living now, from the perspective of the powers that be, is that we, as subjects, will not play ball and feed the consumerist machine which provides so many non-creators with a life of luxury. This is the struggle that any one, who bothers to notice, wrestles with. How do we satisfy the moment while paying the electric bill? This is tough, but do-able. We do it by being in the moment. By not suspending our current happiness for a vague future reward, that may or may not come. Maybe it is the perfect pattern of crystallized ice on your window sill. Maybe it is looking into the eyes of a child. Maybe it is gazing at the stars and wondering about Life, The Universe and Everything.

Maybe....it is having a place to share your ideas with a lot of fantastic people, from all walks of life and many different places on Earth. So here we are...
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." -Douglas Adams

Andromeda
Associate
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:50 pm

Re: Joe on Morality

Post by Andromeda »

My thanks to you, Samarra. I need to look at that :roll: Have a wonderful day!

jonsjourney wrote:If anyone out there has failed to read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams...please do yourself a favor and give it a shot. It is quirky British humor at its finest.
I have tried to read that two or three times, and always get to about chapter three when I lose interest... or just can't relate somehow. There's a little point where I just can't make the 'leap' to the next step.

Probably just an example of how persons from different environments have different mental processes... inherited or environmentally caused...

Your comments are very interesting though... thanks for the help! I might add this to what you said... now that we have a Human for President, things may be getting better... let's hope so.

Btw jonsjourney, do you use wikipedia? It's a fantastic resource for anyone. I'm gonna go look up that book you mentioned right now...

thanks,
Envision a world as it should be. What we envision is what we create in the future.

Clemsy
Working Associate
Posts: 10645
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2002 6:00 am
Location: The forest... somewhere north of Albany
Contact:

Post by Clemsy »

Don't forget, Jon, that the earth was destroyed because they didn't check the paper work, fill out the proper forms for a review, etc, etc.

I loved the series. His satire is quite sharp. I especially like the part where dent finds himself on a planet that had convinced all its lawyers, politicians, middlemen, advertisers, etc., that their planet was in imminent danger and, since they were so important, they got to leave first. They were put on a ship targeted for the sun, but the dang thing went off course and crashed on earth. They spread a disease which killed off the evolving primates.

We are their descendants. :shock:
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

Andromeda
Associate
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:50 pm

Post by Andromeda »

Clemsy wrote:Don't forget, Jon, that the earth was destroyed because they didn't check the paper work, fill out the proper forms for a review, etc, etc.

I loved the series. His satire is quite sharp. I especially like the part where dent finds himself on a planet that had convinced all its lawyers, politicians, middlemen, advertisers, etc., that their planet was in imminent danger and, since they were so important, they got to leave first. They were put on a ship targeted for the sun, but the dang thing went off course and crashed on earth. They spread a disease which killed off the evolving primates.

We are their descendants. :shock:
Now theres a myth I could believe in! (clap clap clap) :D
Envision a world as it should be. What we envision is what we create in the future.

Samarra
MRT Leader
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Montes Carpatus
Contact:

Living in the Moment

Post by Samarra »

How do we satisfy the moment while paying the electric bill?
A very good point, Jonsjourney. This is very hard to do, but as Joe said in Power of Myth, it isn’t happiness that we are searching for, it's a LIFE EXPERIENCE!

Enjoy the mundane, enjoy the love, enjoy the pain. It's all part of the human experience, because, as Joe also said, "if you don't get it here, you're never going to get it."

Or, as Sting put it so eloquently, "to look for Heaven is to live here in Hell."

I've noticed recently that when I slow down and focus all my attention on one thing at a time, instead of trying to multitask, I see my life as a wonderful experience, treasuring every moment.
Maybe it is the perfect pattern of crystallized ice on your window sill.
How strange that I just did this when I woke up this morning. I was feeling blah, and made a conscious decision to focus on something beautiful, and there it was... the cool frost pattern on my window (click to enlarge):

Image

...and then I read your post. It was like a sign that I was on the right track. How mysterious the Universe is that we each participate in each other’s lives, sometimes as the messenger, without even knowing it.
Image

jonsjourney
Associate
Posts: 3191
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:24 pm
Location: Earth

Post by jonsjourney »

...and then I read your post. It was like a sign that I was on the right track. How mysterious the Universe is that we each participate in each other’s lives, sometimes as the messenger, without even knowing it.
I am glad I did not write something more diabolical!!! :twisted:

It is magical how the thread of life can lead us exactly where we need to be. I learned a while back to stop resisting so much. The more resistance I put up the higher the road blocks became. There is something to surrender.
Don't forget, Jon, that the earth was destroyed because they didn't check the paper work, fill out the proper forms for a review, etc, etc.
Yes, it was just our problem that we had not gotten around to developing interstellar travel so we could get to the zoning office in Alpha Centauri to see the paperwork. We did, however, invent neat digital watches!

I think Ford is my favorite character, after all, he is..."a hoopy frood who really knows where his towel is!"
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." -Douglas Adams

Clemsy
Working Associate
Posts: 10645
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2002 6:00 am
Location: The forest... somewhere north of Albany
Contact:

Post by Clemsy »

Yes, it was just our problem that we had not gotten around to developing interstellar travel so we could get to the zoning office in Alpha Centauri to see the paperwork.
Technological ignorance is no excuse! Those papers were on file for centuries! But noooo.... you were all busy being stupid, gnawing at each other's ankles and inventing chia pets.

All hail the Bureaucracy!
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

Samarra
MRT Leader
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Montes Carpatus
Contact:

Merry Christmas

Post by Samarra »

Merry Christmas Everyone!

Image
Image

Christina
Associate
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: Vancouver, WA
Contact:

Post by Christina »

I agree. He does live in the field of consciousness and we can build upon his teachings in our own explorations of our personal mythology following in a sense the hero's journey. I've had dreams with Joseph Campbell prompting me to build off his teachings but also make them my own through authentic and joyful creative expression.

Here's to a great teacher! One who encouragesn like the Buddha that we be a light unto ourselves.

CarmelaBear
Associate
Posts: 4087
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Post by CarmelaBear »

I wish that the consciousness of one individual would turn out to be capable of awareness outside the machinations of the brain, but I think Joe Campbell would agree with those of us who doubt that it has any life than the one we enjoy while our bodies and brains function.

As for the nature of that functioning, it is a mix of objectivity with the great blessing of continuity (where one and one equals two for Pythagorus and for me, centuries beyond initial recognition) and subjectivity with the wondrous firmament of ideas connecting disparate things to make something new and sometimes beautiful and useful and capable of communicating something otherwise obscure.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

Christina
Associate
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: Vancouver, WA
Contact:

Post by Christina »

As a qigong movement meditation instructor and a sitting meditation practitioner I have contemplated the body-Spirit connection a lot along my own journey. My book the Tao of Tarot discusses universal body/earth practices to arcane wisdom and I appreciate how much personal insight has come from my own yogic practices.

There were a few moments in meditation retreat last December where while meditating on compassion and the heart I had an awareness of a space within that was both eternal and complete emptiness. I found it interesting during these moments how separate my personality/perception of self and body felt from this space (what I believe is my true Self). I also thought how should I be Jesus I would go to the crucufuxion willingly and face pain and death without fear with this connectiion.

So while the body is a vehicle into spiritual experience I'm not sure how much is physically embodied. Perhaps it is just when the mind and heart are consistently unified as one.

CarmelaBear
Associate
Posts: 4087
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Post by CarmelaBear »

Christina wrote:I had an awareness of a space within that was both eternal and complete emptiness. I found it interesting during these moments how separate my personality/perception of self and body felt from this space (what I believe is my true Self).
Did you ever see the movie "Awakenings", based on a story about Oliver Sacks, a doctor concerned with the workings of the brain? When the people were temporarily revived after years of living in partial coma, they not only had no memory of the passage of time, but during their loss of consciousness, they had no memory of any form of inner life whatsoever. Brain damage really does squelch the primary functions of what we call "consciousness".

Now, if your awareness occurred during a deep coma (after you had been declared brain dead) and you could recall these events after being spontaneously revived, I would ask "how can this be?". However, a fully functioning brain has a remarkable capacity for imagination that can be extremely convincing. They are enticing and they tease and they suggest more than the real experience of the event. They suggest some kind of reality that may actually exist and be independent of time and space as we experience these natural phenomena.

What you describe as your experience in meditation sounds a bit like the dissociative effect. When I was raped, my mind dissociated from the event with such tenacity that I never felt that my "true self" (the self with which I identify most strongly) had ever been touched at all. As a defense, it has turned out to be like body armour.

Christina wrote: I also thought how should I be Jesus I would go to the crucufuxion willingly and face pain and death without fear with this connectiion.
I confess that I'm not sure you are describing what is termed "afterlife" or "soul" or "spirit" or what. My first thought is that a vivid imagination can be so compelling that it can overcome the survival instinct. What you are describing sounds like an apology for suicide. Jesus struggled with his suicide, and in the end, he divorced his instinct as well as his conscience from his last crescendo by lobbing responsibility over to his "Father" who was essentially ordering him to face torture and death for a cause larger than himself.

Tomorrow America celebrates "Memorial Day", when we remember the sacrifice of millions of human beings who performed the same service to protect our right to have these conversations without fear. Their deaths were required by perceptions, which may or may not have been accurate, but were certainly experienced and given credence by large numbers of powerful individuals like you and me.

It is possible for these perceptions and impressions to be altered and for this type of suicidal sacrifice to become entirely unneccesary, and the first step may be to make the imagining of a Jesus-like suicide (famous, glorified, deified.....etc.) simply another experience in a long, long lifetime.

Right now, what we know for sure is that the body houses what we experience. Without that body it's hard to say whether the sense of self survives at all.

Speculation is only good if it leads to enlightenment. It is stupid if it turns to actual harm to self or others.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

Christina
Associate
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: Vancouver, WA
Contact:

Post by Christina »

A little clarification to avoid misinterpretation...

1) Transcendence is not a theoretical experience

2) We can all cultivate and spiritually mature through intutivite experiences of soul, Spirit

3) Mythically (this is a JC site) Jesus, Odin, Buddha, Green Man, etc reflect our own personal quest to go beyond (ie let go or sacrifice) the limitations of the ego mind

4) For those interested there are body/earth minded practices to help awaken a deeper state of unity awareness, thereby helping stay centered and blissful despite the sufferings of the world (and the internal sufferings of an ego).

My work involves helping veterans and others with post traumatic (and other) stress disorders, addictions, serious health conditions and suicidal tendencies (I am a veteran myself with 11 years of military experience). I have been fortunate to witness how getting people back in touch with themselves (connection with their inner nature) through nature, body minded exercise, dreamwork and holistic wellness practices has brought greater peace, joy and wellness to others.

From my experience when helping those near deaths door a sense of the light within (rather than the vehicle of the body) brings the greatest inner peace and preparedness for the transition that someday we will all take.

Mythologically we do sacrifice our obstacles (judgments, critical thinking, sense of isolation or disconnection) for greater joyful appreciation of life, others and ourselves.

Neoplato
Associate
Posts: 3907
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Neoplato »

Hey Christina,

IMHO here’s my take.
1)Transcendence is not a theoretical experience
If you are talking about the ah-ha moment, I can attest that it is a real experience. Others will say different.
2) We can all cultivate and spiritually mature through intuitive experiences of soul, Spirit
Yes, I agree with you there as well. I have been “cultivating” for almost 20 years now. And the Journey is far from over.
3)Mythically (this is a JC site) Jesus, Odin, Buddha, Green Man, etc reflect our own personal quest to go beyond (ie let go or sacrifice) the limitations of the ego mind
I agree with you here as well. The ego mind likes to differentiate between divine and mortal. It can’t handle the realization that mortal and immortal are One.
4)For those interested there are body/earth minded practices to help awaken a deeper state of unity awareness, thereby helping stay centered and blissful despite the sufferings of the world (and the internal sufferings of an ego)
Again, “unity awareness” is the key. This is what has been taught for thousands of years, however, it has never been in mainstream teaching.
My work involves helping veterans and others with post traumatic (and other) stress disorders, addictions, serious health conditions and suicidal tendencies (I am a veteran myself with 11 years of military experience). I have been fortunate to witness how getting people back in touch with themselves (connection with their inner nature) through nature, body minded exercise, dreamwork and holistic wellness practices has brought greater peace, joy and wellness to others.

From my experience when helping those near deaths door a sense of the light within (rather than the vehicle of the body) brings the greatest inner peace and preparedness for the transition that someday we will all take.

Mythologically we do sacrifice our obstacles (judgments, critical thinking, sense of isolation or disconnection) for greater joyful appreciation of life, others and ourselves.
From these words, I’d say you’re providing a service that is in desperate need. No matter what these people did, they need to come back to themselves and realize they must live out the rest of their lives. Their experiences provide them the opportunity for spiritual growth, and if you can guide them, here’s to you. :D
Last edited by Neoplato on Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.

Locked