Myth and Neuroscience at TEDx

Introducing people of all ages to mythology... in pre-college educational curricula, youth orgs, the media, etc. Share your knowledge, stories, unit and lesson plans, techniques, and more.

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bodhibliss
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Myth and Neuroscience at TEDx

Post by bodhibliss »

Our most recent MythNow Blog entry is the text of a talk by Ceclia Beltran, a member of the JCF Mythological RoundTable® group in New York City, who spoke on this subject at the TEDx East Conference on Interconnectivity.

TED talks are notoriously brief - the text of this one is barely 500 words and, since it's originally spoken rather than written, has a conversational tone. Cecilia is interested in feedback from JCF Associates - so please read her contribution and then either post a comment at the end of the article, or return to this thread, where we hope a more far ranging discussion on the connection between mythology, biology, and brain science will unfold.
For myths & dreams ... are motivated from a single psychophysiological source - namely, the human imagination moved by the conflicting urgencies of the organs (including the brain) of the human body, of which the anatomy has remained pretty much the same since c. 40,000 BC.

Joseph Campbell, The Inner Reaches of Outer Space, p.12
Thanks,
bodhibliss

Andreas
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Post by Andreas »

Hello everyone,

What a great entry, thanks bodhi for bringing it up and thanks Cecilia for the presentation.

In a world where we have dissociated ourselves so much from the unconscious, now more than ever I believe we need to re-establish that connection and Cecilia offers a great way to see why mythology is important. And why there is a connection to myth and science (now that is ironic coming from me).

I am certain Jung said somewhere in Man and His Symbols. Paraphrasing him, "There is knowledge in the unconscious that has never been conscious", and I think that he wasn't talking about experiences, as far as I can tell this means that we inheret through our biology and evolution some sort of wisdom ingrained from the past of our species, ghosts of unknown origin that have evolved through the millenia and are there waiting silently to be awakened. :P

I see, the tree of life that Cecilia has applied to the blueprint of the brain, and having in my mind the symbolic associations that the tree of life represents, then it must mean that some sort of balance, harmony, wholeness, within the structure and functions of the brain, has been achieved. But maybe it goes even deeper?

But let me ask some questions. For example, what is contraction and release and what are they used for? Also the part about how the brain is made of three brains that evolved on top of each other is a bit fuzzy to me. And many more.. but I am tired and I had a full day however I am gonna say this and go crash.

The brain... yeah... pretty complex...

I can see clearly now the layers of realities that exists below the surface where everything is shrouded by darkness, where consiousness is but a mere slave to the demands of Gods, where any attempt to escape this crude matter comes in the forms of demons. I see... Electrical signals clashing together forming alliances whispering of wars creating gods and demons, heavens and hells and darkness, infinite darkness.

8)
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki

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Post by Cindy B. »

Andreas wrote:Also the part about how the brain is made of three brains that evolved on top of each other is a bit fuzzy to me.
Triune brain, Andreas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by bodhibliss »

I suspect patterns in nature inform the archetypel patterns of the psyche and the mythic imagination.

For example, Jung's mandela, which takes the form of a circle - or, as he later noted, of a spiral - a circle that exists on multiple planes. Would this archetypal image have emerged if our solar system were located anywhere other than a spiral galaxy?

Or the serpent spiraling up the caduceus, or ida & pingala coiling up the spine in kundalini yoga, can't help but evoke associations with the double helix of the DNA molecule.

Not that those who were inspired to use such imagery had any idea of the shape of the Milky Way Galaxy, much less the existence of DNA - but mayhap these patterns are emblazoned in our being, considering our being emerged out of these forms ...

or not - but fun to speculate!

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Post by cecilia beltran »

Hi Everyone,

Thank you much for the feedback. I am actually amazed at how your collective insights actually reflect the bulk of my research.

I actually started this work by translating the first two chapters of Genesis in Proto-Sinaitic text. As ideograms, the biblical text is not a spiritual material but an informative one.
It is actually explaining that the beginning is a + and -, always a + and -. The next is light.
Then sound. Then a expansion and a contraction. Then this becomes a cycle that repeats and then ends. When it does, it creates a copy of the entire process in material form.

To understand how that can both speak of the unfolding of the universe and the brain of the human being (as the core of what a human being is the brain)at the same time, I suppose you need to have some idea of Mandelbrot's fractal geometry. The twig is the basic essence of the branch, of the tree, of the forest. The same thing repeats infinitely in both directions of scale. So at first, i entertained the idea of aliens writing genesis..(lol) then I realized that yes, if our brains are portraits of the entire history of the evolution of life on earth, then within us is that knowledge. We have that knowledge within us because that is us. The cells that make the human evolve from a fertilized egg contains that knowledge. It knows how to evolve itself to a human form in nine months.

The stories of how we evolved and our breakthroughs as life is frozen in the human brain. Our imagination is boundless but it gets its material from a finite source--itself. The entire universe of the mind is the brain and its history. Naturally, all products of the mind, whether religious visions or stories that we tell are from the mind. So yes, I think the psyche knows what it is, where it came from, and how it works. But it is using the folded language of dreams to communicate its nature. Myth is how it is reaching to our conscious mind to tell us how it was designed,it's challenges, and where it wishes to go...eternal life. It does not want to forget. We seem to be a kind of walking memory of the earth. I would talk about Chaisson's arrow of time. But then that would take a long time. That is implying that it does not stop at the earth, as it repeats infinitely in both directions of scale. I am actually surprised at how I could summarize it now in a few words. :D
Last edited by cecilia beltran on Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Myth is a great mirror of the reality of our minds.

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Post by cecilia beltran »

@andreas

In the tree of life that is actually the intelligences of Chesed and Gevurah which is Kindness and Severity. Kindness condones and Severity restricts. The motor brain is precisely that, it restricts reflex or condones it. This is where we deliberate action.

But also generally after light and darkness (or sound) the next phenomenon is dimension. Expansion and Contraction--Space. And when you have space, you create the concept of time--the fourth day.
Myth is a great mirror of the reality of our minds.

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Post by Andreas »

Thank you Cecilia for explaining this, it makes more sense now. And thank you Cindy for bringing up the Triune brain which I was oblivious.
The same thing repeats infinitely in both directions of scale. So at first, i entertained the idea of aliens writing genesis..(lol) then I realized that yes, if our brains are portraits of the entire history of the evolution of life on earth, then within us is that knowledge. We have that knowledge within us because that is us. - Cecilia
It is funny... how a slight adjustment to our perspectives changes our thinking so much, indeed the hero journey. :)

And one more question.
The motor brain is precisely that, it restricts reflex or condones it. This is where we deliberate action.
What do you mean here by reflex? Is that the same as instinct? Thanks!
Or the serpent spiraling up the caduceus, or ida & pingala coiling up the spine in kundalini yoga, can't help but evoke associations with the double helix of the DNA molecule. - bodhi
And then you have the symbol of infinity which seems like a good match to the double helix if you rotate it 90 degrees which ofcourse all these seem like an hourglass to me...Infinite time (eternity) within our DNA.. huh?
Last edited by Andreas on Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki

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Post by jonsjourney »

I suspect patterns in nature inform the archetypel patterns of the psyche and the mythic imagination. -BB
What I find interesting is how we have gone from archetypal patterns that are informed by the natural world around us, to the Platonic "perfect" forms that inform so much of mathematics and geometry. Nature, as far I know, has yet to produce an equilateral triangle! Yet, we hang on to these forms, as well. Perhaps, we drew those first lines by looking up instead of around?
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." -Douglas Adams

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Post by jonsjourney »

I suppose you need to have some idea of Mandelbrot's fractal geometry. The twig is the basic essence of the branch, of the tree, of the forest. The same thing repeats infinitely in both directions of scale. -cecilia

and...

I would talk about Chaisson's arrow of time. But then that would take a long time. That is implying that it does not stop at the earth, as it repeats infinitely in both directions of scale. -cecilia
Welcome, Cecilia!

If fractals work in helping us see order in how a tree comes to its form, there is absolutely no reason why we could not extend that both outward (to the universe) and inward (to the micro world). If everything is interconnected, then the macro and the micro should share some sort of structural coherence.....at least that seems intuitively sensible to me. I will still remain cautious about my sense of "sensible" though, as it is subject to not only those archetypal impressions, but the social conditions that have influenced my way of relating to the world.
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." -Douglas Adams

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Post by Cindy B. »

What I find interesting is how we have gone from archetypal patterns that are informed by the natural world around us, to the Platonic "perfect" forms that inform so much of mathematics and geometry. Nature, as far I know, has yet to produce an equilateral triangle! Yet, we hang on to these forms, as well. Perhaps, we drew those first lines by looking up instead of around?
Jon,

I've offered this elsewhere, but what the heck. :wink:

Fundamental archetypal shapes--circle, square, triangle, spiral, cross
Fundamental architectural shapes--pyramid, cylinder, cone, sphere, rectangular box

Across time and worldwide humankind has mixed and matched these naturally occurring archetypal elements for both mundane and sacred purposes. Just add meaning. :P

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by cecilia beltran »

Andreas,

Reflex is moving your head at the sight of a ball coming towards your face. There's no deliberation, you see it, you move. But then, if it is a 3D movie, you could tell yourself that it is not real but your eyes will still close and your head will jerk back. Its very fast. Instinct encompasses all things hardwired. Eating, Sex, Protecting your child, sensing danger. These are not the same as reflex because it requires planning. Although reflex is part of instinct not all instinct is reflex.

Reflex is more rudimentary while instinct is more sophisticated. Reflex--fly sees movement, it flies. Doesn't know what it is, it just flies. Instinct---the bird sees a mate potential and begins a courtship dance.

But whether instinct or reflex, our motor brain deliberates whether to allow it or deny its expression.
Myth is a great mirror of the reality of our minds.

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Post by cecilia beltran »

Jon'sJourney,

I totally understand about being cautious. But, fractals are now figuring in medicine, particularly in disease prone arteries. A new theory of the universe is contesting that inside a black hole is not a singularity but another universe similar to ours but different in scale.

The thing is, you could look at the universe and see either randomness and order, and both would be correct. It all depends on how you're looking at it. If you look at it from the perspective of the form or the material world , there is overwhelming complexity. But if you look at the underlying energies, you could view it as exactly 3. Pull, space, push./ electron, neutron, proton. /black hole, space-time, galactic bulge. /dendrite, cell body, axon. /woman, space, man. / -1,0, +1/ antithesis, synthesis, thesis/ god the son, god the holy spirit, god the father./ the anointed, the medium, the source. Pull, space, push is just everywhere. The sun, the earth, the human body, the human cell. You name it. They are all essentially, as Campbell puts it, the call, the journey, the hero.

the need, the experience, the giver. if you do not separate the need from the giver, it will be whole. The problem with that is, with no concept of broken, the concept of whole is meaningless. The experience of separation, of darkness creates the understanding and appreciation of light. The need educates us on the value of fullness.

Caution is good. But that is pull. what is the creative opposite? It is Courage. Courage to embark on the journey of conviction.
Myth is a great mirror of the reality of our minds.

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Post by Cindy B. »

Hi, Cecilia.

Chances are you've read this post-Jungian work, but if not, I'm sure that you'll appreciate it. :)

ARCHETYPES & STRANGE ATTRACTORS: The Chaotic World of Symbols
By John R. Van Eenwyk, Ph. D. (1997)
http://www.amazon.com/Archetypes-Strang ... 0919123767

Van Eenwyk is a Jungian analyst and--at the time of writing this book, anyway--also Clinical Supervisor at the Medical School of the University of Washington.

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by cecilia beltran »

Cindy,

No. I haven't read this book. I looked at Jung through Campbell's eyes. I checked the book. I was surprised and amazed. Thank you!
Myth is a great mirror of the reality of our minds.

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Post by Cindy B. »

My pleasure, Cecilia. :)

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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