Exploring Joseph Campbell and cutting the Gordian Knot

Introducing people of all ages to mythology... in pre-college educational curricula, youth orgs, the media, etc. Share your knowledge, stories, unit and lesson plans, techniques, and more.

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JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Cindy I reworked the post; is that better?

CarmelaBear picked right up on the intent.

I don't mean to oversimplify, or try to control or dumb down the point I'm trying to make here; but just put in a little less abstract combativeness. Some of the topical material gets so far away from exploring and understanding Joe's material it almost begins to sound like a blog; ( and yes I am guilty too :roll: ).

There is so much outrageously good discussion buried way down in the archives from when the threads got scrambled that really dug in deep into the themes. And we have new people coming in all the time who are curious and know very little about Joseph Campbell. Just this week Bill Moyers is celebrating the 25th aniversary of " The Power of Myth " on his show on PBS; and has been showing it.

So I just think by taking this thread and with a little bit of refining; trying to sharpen it's focus a little better; to make it more about applying Joe's work or at least understanding the connection to what he was saying.

For instance if I say addressing the conundrum: " How do I keep from taking a combative tone in discussion with a subject about someone I dislike "; Joe might say look Jesus said " Love your Enemies "; then he would add; " not just because it is the right thing to do but because they might be the vehicle of your destiny ".

But if I say" Christianity is a theist oriented doctrine that warns you of the possible negative metaphysical consequences of psychological dysfunctional behavior "; ( it might discourage someone who is not so inclined to engage in that kind of discussion and will probably retreat ).

Now the point I am getting at is not; I repeat not about muted philosophical debate or discourse . But you are going to have a much more difficult time getting people to understand some of his concepts if you do not make at least some obligatory effort to reach out to them; ( and by that I mean at a communicative level that they can connect with ). I'm not saying change your posts or the way you post or even the subjects you choose. But it can be done in a way that is so much warmer and inviting to where they will want to know more. So my intent here is to try to make a connection by addressing it in such a way that they would ask and maybe even possibly answer the question: ( " Is this relative to my life? " )

I hope this clears up at least to some extent the point I'm trying to make. :)

Now; where were we? Oh yes; back to: " The Philosophers World Cup " :P
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

Thank you for the clarifiaction. :) I'm slower than some at times. :wink:

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Hey everyone.

This thread has focused so far on the societal aspect of the " Gordian Knot ". I would like to bring up the more intimate application of the individual and psychological dimension here and see if anyone has input that they would like to share concerning Joe's insight's and and a possible connection; ( say the Jungian approach of individuation for instance ); and the breaking through to understanding their own internal barriers or personal version of this perenial human dilemma. " Chrysalis " as a process has been brought up recently as one of these vehicles posed as a metaphorical reference in the address to this change of consciousness. Read for instance: ( " Mid-Life Crisis " ).
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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Post by CarmelaBear »

JamesN. wrote:Hey everyone.

This thread has focused so far on the societal aspect of the " Gordian Knot ". I would like to bring up the more intimate application of the individual and psychological dimension here and see if anyone has input that they would like to share concerning Joe's insight's and and a possible connection; ( say the Jungian approach of individuation for instance ); and the breaking through to understanding their own internal barriers or personal version of this perenial human dilemma. " Chrysalis " as a process has been brought up recently as one of these vehicles posed as a metaphorical reference in the address to this change of consciousness. Read for instance: ( " Mid-Life Crisis " ).
First, "The Gordian Knot" from Wikipedia:
The Gordian Knot is a legend of Phrygian Gordium associated with Alexander the Great. It is often used as a metaphor for an intractable problem solved easily by cheating or "thinking outside the box". ("cutting the Gordian knot"):

"Turn him to any cause of policy,
The Gordian Knot of it he will unloose,
Familiar as his garter" (Shakespeare, Henry V, Act 1 Scene 1. 45–47)
Second, Shakespeare seems to have been referring to the character of one of his characters, who could be counted on to "unloose" the knot whenever the "cause of policy" is brought to his attention. The worst such people are found among those with a predisposition to take a practical approach to every problem, skirting the norms and the rules at every turn.

Third, I know few really successful people who are not so inclined. It is similar to the problem of telling the wife or mother-in-law what you really think of her figure, hair, clothes, etc. Half-truths and skipping the fine print is the bedrock of negotiations, diplomacy and everyday survival.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Awesome CarmelaBear! :D 8)
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CarmelaBear
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Post by CarmelaBear »

You're so nice, James.

Whatever would the bear do without such reassurances?

I may be bold, but I'm also insecure. I often just ignore the fear and keep going.

:D
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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Post by JamesN. »

CarmelaBear wrote: ...
I may be bold; but I'm also insecure. Often I just ignore the fear and keep going.
CarmelaBear... " That to me is a Real Hero ! " 8)

And we are all just like that to some degree; whether we admit it or not. The real hero goes on in spite their fear.; ( IMHO of course. :wink: )
Last edited by JamesN. on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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CarmelaBear
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Post by CarmelaBear »

My Oxygen.
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Note to self: ( Do not try and muti-task at work and post at the same time. :oops: )

Sorry CarmelaBear if I caused any embarressment by misinterpreting your post. I could maybe take it down but it might provide amusement for some as to what not to do in reading too quick. :roll: However if I may say; your fearlessness has always been an inspiration to me. 8)

I especially liked your reply; ( That is if I read it right this time. :) )
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

OK everyone;

( Let me see if I can get this back on track here. :roll: :lol: )

CarmelaBear's excellent post on the defining of " Gordian Knot " gets right to the point of the direction I am trying to address; and that is the breaking free by use of metaphor of the conceptualizing of a personal dilemma.

" Thinking outside the box " would be the intended goal. " Chrysalis " referred to as a process as in " catapillar to butterfly "; ( or metamorphasis if you will ); would be the approach in addressing the " Dilemma of Mid-Life Crisis ". And contemplating a understanding of how to formulate a solution viewed through this lense would be the approach taken. (Metaphor, metaphor, metaphor ); in the understanding of it's part of a natural life process instead of being viewed as a barrier or catastrophy.

This is in a sense what I think is part of what Jean Borlean's excellent and insightful article that Cindy shared recently was getting at. ( At least that was part of what I understood as fundamental .) And the application of Joseph Campbell's way of seeing myth as a metaphorical reference in it's understanding and treatment or address instead of a concretized response would be one of the ways to " Cut the Gordian Knot " here.

Now this may be a rather over-simplified example; but; none-the-less at least points in the direction I'm trying to take this at the personal instead of societal level. I'm pretty sure there are other examples that some of you may have; maybe even in a more expanded view.


And as a added footnote here if anyone is wondering what my reasoning is concerning what possible relevance this line of thought ( of the breaking free of what a person's notion of an individual may be ) to any particular issue; let me ask this question: " How many instances have we seen over the last few weeks of violent societal meltdowns concerning an individual's inability to navigate their own personal crisis " :?:


Best Wishes To All :)
Namaste
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

CarmelaBear
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Post by CarmelaBear »

People tend to adopt patterns, models, ideals and paradigms that appear to be correct and immutable. When reality challenges the ground upon which one stands, a particular response may simply become automatic. In the case of those who are "armed and dangerous", the response can be bloody and fatal.

Folks can cope with nearly any emotion, but direct physical violence from nature or people is a challenge that few of us are equipped to handle effectively.

Be afraid and run like a bunny?

:!:
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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