Roleplaying, Videogames and Mythology

Introducing people of all ages to mythology... in pre-college educational curricula, youth orgs, the media, etc. Share your knowledge, stories, unit and lesson plans, techniques, and more.

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Evinnra
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Post by Evinnra »

On 2006-01-26 21:30, RavenHeart wrote:



The issue, I think, is not about the quality of the medium, but the distribution.

I think storytellers could have said something similar about books way back when: "You are losing the direct connection of presence by trying to convey a tale through text," they might have said.

Did we do the wrong thing when we made the shift to books, threw our elders into convalescent homes, and just read what they wrote instead? We certainly are learning something, I hope.

RavenHeart,

Good point about the 'new' medium of books appearing in a time when knowledge was almost exclusively exchanged by sitting at an elder's feet or becoming an apprentice of a profession. Sure, books became the dominant medium in expressing knowledge, but not before the literacy level in each culture reached a certain level.

However I do see a great difference between the two situations, one where books replace the elders/teachers/community and the other where an INTERACTIVE game replaces something that was originally a 'RECEPTIVE EXPERIENCE'. Books provided an other type of receptive experience, computers and electronic games on the other hand provide interaction. As a mater of fact, the ability to constantly interact and change the possible outcome is precisely the highest appeal of these games.

If you tell me a story, I'll sit at your feet and allow your mind to take my mind to an other place an other time an other reality. If I play a game I act and re-act. Perhaps its not too far fetched from a non-psychologist to claim that something entirely different happening in our mind when we passively listen as opposed to when we constantly on alert and ready to react.

What if these games could be designed to encourage 'receptivity'? Would they still sell enough to make a profit ????

Evinnra
'A fish popped out of the water only to be recaptured again. It is as I, a slave to all yet free of everything.'
http://evinnra-evinnra.blogspot.com

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Post by Guest »

If there is any game with mytholoigical themes that Campbell spoke about, its Final Fantasy VII. absolute masterpiece. it came out in '97 on the PS One. its on PC too. but man, does it still beat many of todays games.
it also has hints of classic myth in there. such as the protaginist's hometown name Nibelheim the scene where you go to a native american village and the wiseman (not quite a shaman) speaks of the planet's and its behaviour. the protaginist's journey is typical of the heroe's journey as well.
Whoever has played it, you guys have to agree, its the best.

And I've played Age of Mythology. Quite fantastic i must add. Did anybody play God of War. I haven't but i heard it's brilliant. It has the classic Greek mythological characters. I believe it ousts Prince of Persia - Warrior Within, which I thought was an amazing experience.

mitejen
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Post by mitejen »

I don't know if anyone had addressed this in other replies, but some of the games that Carnelian might be referring to could be Fable, the Elder Scrolls, Baldur's Gate or possibly even God of War, although the latter is a Mature title and up to a parent's discretion. Link, Final Fantasy, or even something high concept like Jade Empire, which takes place in a medieval-China type environment.

Through many of these games we have the most basic form of the Hero cycle, and there's a good reason for that: I teach in a school that could be described as an Entertainment media trade school, and one of the Departments is Game Design. A required course of the department is Archetypes and Mythology, and it pulls heavily from Campbell. Many of these game design colleges teach courses like this.

A lot of the more complex parts of the cycle like the Quest for the Father are not explored so much, but Call to Action and Belly of the Whale are as plain as day. At some point in the aforementioned titles the character is somehow incarcerated or captured , stripped of all abilities, and must struggle uphill to regain their previous status. It is not quite a literal translation and more a convenience factor, but it's still a reflection of Campbell's influence.
This belly of the whale vehicle isn't restricted to the 'Sword and Sorcery' type of game either: Survival Horror Game Series such as Resident Evil, Silent Hill and Fatal Frame are notorious for this. You start out the game in a sort of learned helplessness mode, completely vulnerable, build up your defenses and your abilities through some kind of accessory or weapon, and then are stripped of that weapon and therefor your defenses during a part of the game where the learning curve considerably peaks.


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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mitejen on 2006-03-22 15:43 ]</font>

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Post by Guest »

Its a pity the "Quest for the Father" would make for a great storyline since it would be a fresh approach to a gaming storyline.

mitejen
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Post by mitejen »

If I had to guess why the 'father' thing hasn't been attempted or explored too much, I'd say it's because when people think of it the first thing that comes to mind is 'Luke, I am your father' and all the cliches that have sprung from that. I know that sounds oversimplifed, but I think a lot of these concepts when they are taught in gaming/tech schools are abbreviated or simplified.

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Post by Guest »

That's true. Perhaps since gaming is so big in the far east, "Quest for the Father" storylines would be too muck like watching a "You kill my father, I kill you" story, which has been exhausted in the movies.

Perhaps the closest game that comprises of some approach to the "Father" is the "Path of Neo" whereby Morpheus plays a fatherly role in Neo's life.

And as I have mentioned the Final Fantasy VII game before, I must add, there is a big element of "quest for the father" in there.

creekmary
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Post by creekmary »

I was thinking of video games creating myths and religions, etc. or vice-versa. The fantasy games, for an example, use fairly established cultural symbols - quests, grails, etc. Couldn't their presentation and interpretation via the simulation effect their meaning the way the output of dreams is sometimes effected by input of events?

Can the intense concentration be compared to meditation? Considering it as intense concentrated meditation, would it be valid to evaluate this game or the other in terms of suitable meditation material for you or your child?

Understand, this is from one who has stayed up all night shooting aliens.

Susan

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Post by Guest »

Susan, to answer your first question I would say that perhaps it can have that effect.

And about the meditation part, your points could be valid. In Bhuddism to reach the Truth and Enlightenment, one must meidtate and contemplate thereafter, whatever it may be. Playing videogames is a form of contemplation. Normally if you are stuck at a certain point in the game you tend to switch it off, relax the brain a bit and think about the way to solve the problem.

But is contemplating about games really what we should be contemplating about, or should we be contemplating about spiritual aspects such as our being, our journey in this life, contemplating about what is eternity? If games can encourage people to contemplate about such aspects, perhaps there would be more enlightened people.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shamin on 2006-03-28 00:52 ]</font>

d_ward
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Post by d_ward »

As a one time avid gamer to a now sometime player, I have followed this conversation with much interest. Although I cannot refute some of the ideas that point to the positive impacts that are possible if video games become a forum for the dissemination of myth, I cannot support the idea.
The very thought of video games as the vehicle for the transmission of the music of the cosmos is extremely frightening. I think that video games at best, would be a severe bastardization of a given myth.

I also believe as some others have posted, that video games are for entertainment or recreation, and serve as an "escape" mechanism. They have become for me another way in which the modern world numbs and desensitizes the individual to the experience of life.

However, I would truly enjoy to play the games that are discussed in this forum.

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Post by Guest »

Good point d_ward.

Thanks for that. Especially the part about desensitising people to the experience of life and about games not being a good medium by which we can experience the music of the cosmos.

Maybe games are just a form of storytelling? And that's about it. Do you agree?

And through storytelling, we can learn much about mythology.

I can agree with you that it desensitises people, but perhaps it's because, as each year passes, games have become based more on violence and less based on the essence of storytelling.

When I think of a game that has fulfilled that essence, my mind always goes back to Final Fantasy VII. There is violence, but not as gory as many of the graphic ones we see today. However, the game's foundation is it's story. Apart from the romance, FFVII focuses a lot on the cosmos and life-forces.



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rodroth
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Post by rodroth »

As an avid gamer, I would have to agree. Games are storytelling. Whether the myths are old or newly created (for let's face it, not all myths are ancient), I think part of the attraction of these games stems from them being part of the eternal cycle of stories.

However, this does not mean that they are not desensitizing, bevause I think they are. Why? Not as badly as TV is (after all, the story is already chewed and processed - tv is fast-food storytelling), but the online games are depriving the Story of an important factor.

The Myth is there
The Setting is there
The Listeners and the Storyteller are there
But there is no bonfire, they are not gathered.

So the magic of the myth prevails and attracts the minds and hearts of humans, as always - but it doesn't become that seed, to re-tell the story, to create NEW stories, which is so important. The same story is being re-told over and over again.

It's like copying a book. No matter how many times you copy it, whether you flip it upside down or do the pages in reverse order - it'll still be the same book.

And one important thing to ME with stories and myths is not just what they tell us about ourselves and society, but how they develop that society and those people.

Hence - games are great for awakening the hearts to myth, but i think they need more. They need to create. And it happens from time to time. The big MMORPGS like WoW and Everquest create new worlds, evolutions etc. Sadly enough within a certain framework that limits them, and a smaller one than a culture would give them.

But, in these times, when real myths are so few and far between to most people, when the "Mythos" is all but dead, anything that resembles the myth will do. Including video games, movies, tv...


“Myth is an attempt to narrate a whole human experience, of which the purpose is too deep, going too deep in the blood and soul, for mental explanation or description.” //DH Lawrence

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Post by Guest »

Here in South Africa, there is not a large, and perhaps no online gaming community at all.

But what I wanted to ask those who do play online...is there a strong essence of storytelling in those arenas? Is there enough time and space for a game to present its story.

I think the gamming industry is not being used to its full potential as far as storytelling is concerned. Year after year we are introduced to one racing sim after another as well as gorier fighting sims. Its as if imagination has packed up and eloped from the developers' minds. There are fewer and fewer games of mythological or profound stories for that matter. I mean, "Singstar" makes more sales than "Shadow of the Colossus".
Everything is about pushing the limit of the console or computer and not about the tale that is actually supposed to capture the gamer.

I would also like to say stories determines where a society has been, where they presently are and where they are going.

This is the case with art on the whole. I was speaking to a conductor of the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra and he said, "art is the lifeblood of a civilisation".

So I pose another question.

Can gaming be called an art?

Certainly all thoe FMVs are pretty to look at, but is the whole concept of gaming, from immersing the gamer into the character's role to watching the story unfold, can this be constituted as an art?


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rodroth
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Post by rodroth »

Shamin, some of the games are big on storytelling and legends. Those are often developed outside the actual game, presented in the communities that develop around the games.

World of Warcraft, is in essence a sitcom. The creatures that are killed spawn again, and the dungeons are "reset". Weapons appear and re-appear - simply because it is easier to do it that way technically.

At the same time, single-player games with a smallar multi-player capability, like Neverwinter Nights, can build a much stronger storyline and mythology to discover.

So it's there - but we have yet to see a game that gives the world life as Tolkien did, or other masters of world creation. However, WoW has come a far way, most gamers agree. The world itself is large enough to make you talk and dream and hear rumours of faraway places, so dangerous you have to learn and train to be able to even pass through.

“Myth is an attempt to narrate a whole human experience, of which the purpose is too deep, going too deep in the blood and soul, for mental explanation or description.” //DH Lawrence

davepots
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Post by davepots »

Hello all!

I just came across a fabulous article entitled "The Influence of Literature and Myth in Videogames". It is published by IGN.com, a long-established gaming network. Very acccessible and reader friendly; yet at the same time quite in depth.

They talk specifically about Campbell for several paragraphs, even including a monomyth diagram. They also mention how Campbell is a house-hold name among many videogame designers. Definately worth checking out.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/709/709153p1.html

NathanGear
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Post by NathanGear »

Intersting article, but the writer is a minority in the industry. The one thing I most dislike about the gaming industry is it doesn't exactly play-up the story aspect of games. Gaming mags don't have literary analysis of games. A review of a new Zelda title won't talk about mythology. Video game mags rarely interview story writers... the behind the scenes material usually involves the graphics and gameplay.

When was the last time I walked into a gaming store and heard people discussing Campbell or Hindu mythology? Oh that's right, never.



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