Sacrifice in the Name of Music
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Sacrifice in the Name of Music
In the 18th century, in Italy every year more than 4.000 boys were castrated after being chosen to become "castrati". -- "Sacrificed in the name of music", as great Italian singer Cecilia Bartoli points out in an interesting promotion video for her new album Sacrificum, that will be published in October 2009.
A great example that proves, producing art is not always fun ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZdcp_FpfqI
A great example that proves, producing art is not always fun ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZdcp_FpfqI
Works of art are indeed always products of having been in danger, of having gone to the very end in an experience, to where man can go no further. -- Rainer Maria Rilke
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Sacrifice Martin? More like first degree assault! I can't even wrap my head around the mindset...
Last edited by Clemsy on Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Isn't it better to have your testicles sacrificed for music, than your life for an obscure god? I understand Neoplato's preferences, of course. On the other hand, the achievement of these artists may have equilibrated the loss of genitals, especially if you consider that genitals can cause a lot of trouble.Clemsy wrote:Sacrifice Martin? More like first degree assault! I can't even wrap my head around the mindset...
It's impossible to compare though. I barely can imagine, that anyone was able to sing more beautiful than Cecilia. But then, I'm a fan!
Works of art are indeed always products of having been in danger, of having gone to the very end in an experience, to where man can go no further. -- Rainer Maria Rilke
Hey, Martin.
When you offered your first post, I, too, wondered if perhaps in 18th century Europe, what seemed brutal to us was a fulfilling role and life for the castrato, so I looked around the web a bit. When it comes to the castrati as a whole, I decided, uh, no. Here's a surprisingly decent Wikipedia entry for any interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato
All this links back, of course, to the historical function of music in religious traditions and the patriarchal exclusion of women's participation. All fine arts are rooted in religion.
Cindy
When you offered your first post, I, too, wondered if perhaps in 18th century Europe, what seemed brutal to us was a fulfilling role and life for the castrato, so I looked around the web a bit. When it comes to the castrati as a whole, I decided, uh, no. Here's a surprisingly decent Wikipedia entry for any interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato
All this links back, of course, to the historical function of music in religious traditions and the patriarchal exclusion of women's participation. All fine arts are rooted in religion.
Cindy
Last edited by Cindy B. on Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
Needless to say, I'm a baritone. Me Me Me ME Me Me MeA castrato (Italian, plural: castrati) is a man with a singing voice equivalent to that of a soprano, mezzo-soprano, or contralto voice produced either by castration of the singer before puberty or one who, because of an endocrinological condition, never reaches sexual maturity.
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.
Although it takes a bit of focused vocal training, my range is three octaves in mezzo-soprano. It must be the German genes in me favouring efficiency but like Martin I too believe that making personal sacrifices for a cause is 'no big deal’. ( Besides, genitals do cause a lot of trouble. )
Yet, if there is a way to go about it, I’d rather have both: my capacity remaining intact and my work for the cause done properly.
Yet, if there is a way to go about it, I’d rather have both: my capacity remaining intact and my work for the cause done properly.
'A fish popped out of the water only to be recaptured again. It is as I, a slave to all yet free of everything.'
http://evinnra-evinnra.blogspot.com
http://evinnra-evinnra.blogspot.com
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I think Cindy has a point. The career of a castrato is no option for me either, though the castrati were adored artists. Maybe it's the major trial for heroes to make peace with their balls and get anything done inspite of them.
Evinnra, congratulations to mastering three octaves! I didn't know that you have been trained in singing. Do you like Cecilia's voice?
Evinnra, congratulations to mastering three octaves! I didn't know that you have been trained in singing. Do you like Cecilia's voice?
Works of art are indeed always products of having been in danger, of having gone to the very end in an experience, to where man can go no further. -- Rainer Maria Rilke
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Only if it's a willing sacrifice, Martin! Sacrificing someone else's testicles for the pleasure of one's ears is... less than... something significant. Everything reads like understatement.Isn't it better to have your testicles sacrificed for music, than your life for an obscure god?
(Amusing moment for onlookers: The goalie on my 12 year old's soccer team got the ball right in the area under discussion the other day, and, of course, doubled over. So did every boy on both teams in an indisputable moment of thou art that. I hope someone has the video.)
Last edited by Clemsy on Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
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Here we are discussing genital mutilation in historical terms and it is going on right now, even as we speak, in many African nations...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBEhynDDRkk
Of course I know everyone here is well aware of this...the folks here are too well informed to not be. I just thought some parity was in order. Life in the "modern world"....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBEhynDDRkk
Of course I know everyone here is well aware of this...the folks here are too well informed to not be. I just thought some parity was in order. Life in the "modern world"....
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." -Douglas Adams
Trained in singing? Well I don't want to tell porkies here so I let you judge whether an elementary school education that specialised in music teaching to young children is considered proper training when coupled with some private singing lessons at age thirty something. That was the occasion when I was told that I do have three octave range if my voice is trained. My undeveloped vocal range is merely two and a bit octaves which gets used only in church hymn singing. ( It feels kind of wrong to use my voice for a less noble cause than singing to/with a congregation. I know, it is a weird claim but to say something even more weird, I also loath singing solo yet I don't mind listening to solo artists.) Who is Cecilia? (Other than Saint Cecilia the patron saint of music and family life I don't know who you are referring to. )Martin_Weyers wrote:I think Cindy has a point. The career of a castrato is no option for me either, though the castrati were adored artists. Maybe it's the major trial for heroes to make peace with their balls and get anything done inspite of them.
Evinnra, congratulations to mastering three octaves! I didn't know that you have been trained in singing. Do you like Cecilia's voice?
Had to laugh out loud on reading your comment Clemsy! Indeed, seeing beneficial outcome from the castration of others seems to be more popular than experiencing castration for the sake of greater good. I did not allow my daughter to pierce her ears - though she asked for it - before she turned 18 in order to spare my self from later accusations that I knowingly allowed her to be physically altered before she could give her consent. Rape is not my thing - to put it mildly. .
Last edited by Evinnra on Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
'A fish popped out of the water only to be recaptured again. It is as I, a slave to all yet free of everything.'
http://evinnra-evinnra.blogspot.com
http://evinnra-evinnra.blogspot.com
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZdcp_FpfqIEvinnra wrote: Who is Cecilia?
I'm not suggesting to reintroduce that tradition. I guess what made me starting this thread is the fascination about it's existance in "modern" Europe of the 18th century as well as its relation to mythic traditions. Many people here seem to have a desire for a mythically based society. The castrato tradition pretty much reminds me on initiations in mythic societies: These boys are not initiated into the life of a hunter, warrior, shaman or family man, but initiated into another social role -- one that is worshipped in a way that is typical for sacred traditions.Clemsy wrote: Only if it's a willing sacrifice, Martin! Sacrificing someone else's testicles for the pleasure of one's ears is... less than... something significant. Everything reads like understatement.
Works of art are indeed always products of having been in danger, of having gone to the very end in an experience, to where man can go no further. -- Rainer Maria Rilke
I agree with you, Martin, in the sense that it's not our literal mythic past and all its trappings that needs to be recaptured but the spirit and imagination inherent in the mythic that can move us forward. Good grief, I wouldn't want to go back for anything.
Cindy
Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
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In that case, Martin, I'll not worry about you having lost your mind! (Didn't think you were suggesting anything of the kind, of course.)I'm not suggesting to reintroduce that tradition.
I can see how the practice would remind you of initiation rituals... but considering the era...
Remember, I was a voice in a Catholic boy's choir over which the nuns oooh'd and aaah'd.
Just let the ladies sing, sing, sing!
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas