Hera/hero etymological link; proto-Hera/Hermes

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Cindy B.
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Hera/hero etymological link; proto-Hera/Hermes

Post by Cindy B. »

Hey, all.

Can anyone help me and Clemsy with this one? Thanks. :)

Cindy


***

Carmela wrote:The very word "Hero" was flipped from the original name of a female god to the generic version of the self-sacrificially altruistic male saviour. Once it became completely masculine, another word had to be devised for the lesser (female) hero. The other hero was called the "heroine".
Cindy wrote:Indeed, Hera. General knowledge, huh. :wink:
Clemsy wrote:Carmela, can we get a reference for that? This seems something that would have come my way and the only ref I could find quickly tells me what I'd already thought:
hero
late 14c., "man of superhuman strength or courage," from L. heros "hero," from Gk. heros "demi-god" (a variant singular of which was heroe), originally "defender, protector," from PIE base *ser- "to watch over, protect" (cf. L. servare "to save, deliver, preserve, protect"). Sense of "chief male character
Cindy wrote:Clemsy,

Hera, as mother goddess, was the original protector and defender (archetypal great mother here), and as well as of the greatest Greek hero, Heracles (Hercules) from whom his name is derived. Heracles means "Glory of Hera."

Not sure where I learned this about Hera/hero, most likely something Jungian, but I can research later if you'd like.
Clemsy wrote:Oh I'm aware of the Hera/Herakles connection. Etymology seems to be thus:
Hera
from Gk. Hera, lit. "protectress," related to heros "hero," originally "defender, protector."
So I'll give that there's a relationship between the two but the one doesn't evolve from the other that I can see. I'm picky like that. lol!
Cindy wrote:I understand why it seems so, of course. When time allows, I'll do some digging.
Clemsy wrote:Most I can find has 'hero' from 'heros', meaning demi-god. Any similarity with Hera may be parallel rather than sequential. I can see where the use could have come down from a previous matriarchal culture, of which Hera is an expression, absorbed by later patriarchal intrusion.

Don't know if such a deep etymology is possible, but would be curious as to what you find.
Cindy wrote:Merely to muddy these feminine/masculine etymological waters more, :P Clemsy, I just thought of this Greek tale: Hero (female) and Leander (male). Just saying. I still haven't looked into the Hera/hero etymology issue yet.

Cindy


P.S. And on a related note: Zeus Heraios, "Zeus, consort of Hera." Ya' gotta' love it, ladies. :wink: Also, the worship of Hera predated that of Zeus, and the oldest Greek temples were dedicated to her. Zeus wasn't always and necessarily perceived as top dog god in the pantheon.
Clemsy wrote:Indeed. Zeus may be just as old (who knows how old any of these deities actually are!), but he wasn't native to the Greek peninsula. He, and the other boys, came down with the Aryan migrations, and absorbed the existing goddess based cultures... if memory serves.
Cindy wrote:And somewhere Plato wrote that Hera was derived from the Babylonian goddess Aruru.
Cindy wrote:Clemsy,

Maybe bodhibliss would know about the Hera/hero etymology issue. You think? Sure would save me busy work :P , and I'm not even sure that whatever the resource is in my own library. A casual look on the web while I watch the news has turned up nothing so far along this line.

I certainly hope after all this that I'm not mistaken. I'm starting to doubt myself since I've not yet hit on something on the web. Usually I'm quite good at internet research as far as one can go with that, and my bookmarked articles produced nothing.
Clemsy wrote:Bodhi probably does, but I'll wait to ask him when I see him next week at the symposium. He's a busy beaver right now!

But I'd be surprised if there was anything certain. These words are old.

...Although one must take into account that the word in its current usage didn't appear until the 14th century.
Cindy wrote:That would be great, Clemsy, and have a wonderful time, too. 8)

In the meantime, soon I'll take a look here at home.

Cindy


P.S. There is a link, though, as I discovered on the web between the Greek words (but ancient Greek?) between heros (m.) meaning "master" and the correlative heras (f.) meaning "mistress." This is not what I had in mind, though.


τέλος (The End)
Last edited by Cindy B. on Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Andreas
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Post by Andreas »

Hero/Hera have the same root, not sure if there is a third word though which they derive or which one came first. Btw, the ancient greeks pronounced them the same and we do also. Hope this helps.
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Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

Thanks, Andreas.

Could you please indulge me and share that etymological root of the two and what it means if you know it?

Also, do you have any idea of this root's link to ancient Greek if any?

Thanks again. :)

Cindy
Last edited by Cindy B. on Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Clemsy »

Btw, the ancient greeks pronounced them the same and we do also.
Interesting! Thanks, Andreas! Should have thought to ask our resident Greek! lol!
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Post by Andreas »

:D

Ancient Greek: ἥρως, hḗrōs, ἥρα, Hēra The root is ἥρ. I am guessing that it is related with another greek word which means to lift up but I really have no clue.

And btw I am copying these words from wiki, the accent is correct but I am not sure if the symbols are, and since my keyboard does not support ancient greek... :lol:
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Post by Cindy B. »

Uh, translation into English, please? :lol:

And thanks!

Cindy


P.S. I just used an online translator to learn that ἥρ means "ir". Certainly cleared up that question for me. :P
Last edited by Cindy B. on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Andreas »

Oh right lol, the root must be Her. then, is this what you want? I am completely out of my league here. :P
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Post by Cindy B. »

Thank you, Herr Andreas. (Back to the master/mistress link.)

I'll see if I can uncover the Greek roots to her-. We'll likely end up back at *ser- that Clemsy indicated, though.

And what is that Greek word that means "lift up" as you mentioned?

:)
Last edited by Cindy B. on Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Andreas »

Just a trying to explain this but I really have no clue... so don't take me seriously.

You need to uncover the greek root of ἥρ which translates in english er. For apparent reasons they could not use er in English for the word Heros, because that would make it eros... so they added an "h" at the beggining. Something like that...

lol
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Post by Cindy B. »

You really are helping, Andreas, thank you. And interesting about er.

And I just amended my previous post while you were typing, so I'll ask again: What is the Greek word that means "to lift up" that you referred to?

Cindy
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Post by Andreas »

I just used an online translator to learn that ἥρ means "ir". Certainly cleared up that question for me.
Don't know about that, we have two i's, this ἥ is closer to e
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Post by Andreas »

What is the Greek word that means "to lift up" that you referred to?
This is just guessing I am not sure if the word Hero/Hera are related.

The word is airos (which is pronounced exactly like eros) but unfortunately I cannot find the original word in the web it keeps redirecting me to eros.

I have to get back on you on this one, give me time.
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Post by Cindy B. »

That's fine, Andreas, about airos. One never knows where associations might lead. It's a good call. 8)

I appreciate your help. :)

And do you know if Hera, by any chance, was ever called something else by the ancient Greeks? Something doesn't seem obviously related to Hera?

Cindy
Last edited by Cindy B. on Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Neoplato »

Here's my intuitive guess. "That which was two, became one." Hence the "lifting" part.

:wink:
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Post by Cindy B. »

I don't know the language, of course, so your hunch isn't jumping out at me without projection of my own. Would you please share more of your thinking?

Also, again I amended my previous post in the interim, so this: And do you know if Hera, by any chance, was ever called something else by the ancient Greeks? Something that doesn't seem obviously related to Hera?

:)
Last edited by Cindy B. on Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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