Hera/hero etymological link; proto-Hera/Hermes

Are you looking for a quotation that you can't quite place? Trying to track down a hard-to-find publication? Here, folks can help you find the answers, or discuss ways for you to discover them for yourself.

Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

Cindy B.
Working Associate
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:49 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Cindy B. »

Thank you, Myrtle, but only if you, too, have the interest and the time. Okay? I'll try again as well as I have time.

And I do believe that you express the researcher archetype or a researcher gene, perhaps. :P

Yassou!
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

Cindy B.
Working Associate
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:49 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Cindy B. »

By the way, Myrtle, and just in case, these common alternate names for Hera as sole manifestation of the Triple Mother Goddess I'm aware of: Pais, Teleia, Khera. (Also often written as Hera Pais, Hera Teleia, Hera Khera.)

For any interested, these tables (lower third of page) list titles for Hera gleaned from Greek literature: http://www.theoi.com/Cult/HeraCult2.html

So to clarify what I had in mind, Myrtle, falls along the line of, for instance, what the Phoenicians might have called Hera given that some historians believe that they introduced her to ancient Greece. Other origins are proposed, too, of course, so what might any of those ancient peoples have called her before she was pre-hellenized and firmly adopted by the Greeks? True, we may never be able to discover these root names or hints of them... I've certainly had no luck, of course, merely scouring the web. :P

Cindy
Last edited by Cindy B. on Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

Neoplato
Associate
Posts: 3907
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Neoplato »

So to clarify what I had in mind, Myrtle, falls along the line of, for instance, what the Phoenicians might have called Hera given that some historians believe that they introduced her to ancient Greece. -Cindy
And interestingly, I read somewhere that it was the Phoenicians that gave the concept of Isis to Egypt. Does that imply that Hera=Isis? :shock:
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.

Cindy B.
Working Associate
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:49 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Cindy B. »

Yes, Neoplato, in this sense: Mother Goddess


And in the Monty Python sense:

Image

Always wanted a reason to use this image. :lol:

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

Neoplato
Associate
Posts: 3907
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Neoplato »

Mother goddess is a term used to refer to a goddess who represents motherhood, fertility, creation, or who embodies the bounty of the Earth. When equated with the Earth or the natural world such goddesses are sometimes referred to as Mother Earth or as the Earth Mother
Also, Juno is equated with Isis. Um...doesn't it sounds like we closed the loop on this?

That a Hero is the male aspect of the Defender and Protector of the Mother Goddess?

Or in Dr. Seuss terms, "The Lorax"? :shock:
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.

Clemsy
Working Associate
Posts: 10645
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2002 6:00 am
Location: The forest... somewhere north of Albany
Contact:

Post by Clemsy »

There is strong evidence that the first agricultural communities formed in and around the fertile crescent. So assuming Sumer is a starting point, myths spread and evolved as the ideas and populations shifted over thousands of years. So Hera may very well be synonymous with Isis (Don't forget, though, that each goddess figure is an expression of some aspect of the feminine impulse. Same goes for the boys as expressions of the male impulse.)

Also, various cultures may worship a Zeus, but one Zeus may be quite different from another. I believe the Minoan idea of Zeus is a bit different than the mainland, etc.

As I stated earlier, a lot of this is lost in the mist of time. Certainly, as Campbell discusses at length, there was a dramatic shift when people's attention was drawn upward to the patterns seen in the,movements of the sun, moon, planets and stars. But even then, I can's see some band of astronomer priests sitting down and planning out a new mythology. Perhaps, and this is mere Clemsy stuff here, the existing myths were projected upward and proceeded to evolve, perhaps faster than usual, into what spread outward, continuing to evolve to each new set of environmental factors.

I'm reminded of a doc on early Christianity on PBS some years ago. (I've mentioned this once or twice here before.) According to the historian, the Romans had no problem with Christianity as long as it remained a subset of Judaism. However, when it was declared a 'new religion' under a 'new god', all bets were off. This was considered a contradiction in terms and literally a threat to the very foundations of the Roman state which existed in balance with the existing functions of myth.

You might say the Christians were to Rome what Galileo was to the early church. lol!

So at the end of the day, the hero/Hera question may only be a matter of conjecture.

Oh my. I seem to have gone off on a ramble! Morning coffee will do that when I use the large mug. :-)
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

Cindy B.
Working Associate
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:49 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Cindy B. »

Just want to mention and clarify, Neoplato, that the original purpose of this thread was investigating words and etymology. In this sense the loop has not been closed as you suggested...and most likely will not be. :wink:


Now please know that I'm not saying our excursion, too, into mother goddesses and their migrations across the ancient world isn't interesting as heck. So do carry on if you'd like. 8)


And enjoy your Friday! Named for the Norse goddess Freya. :)

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

CarmelaBear
Associate
Posts: 4087
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Post by CarmelaBear »

Clemsy wrote: So at the end of the day, the hero/Hera question may only be a matter of conjecture.
I have to concede the truth of this. I just accepted the story of Hero as the earliest use of the word, and therefore, the most likely origin of it.

I do like using the word "Hero" for both male and female versions of the journey and quest, etc. The word describes people in general, don't you agree?

(P.S. I occasionally drink too much coffee, usually by running out of decaf, and the effect can be downright comical.)
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

Clemsy
Working Associate
Posts: 10645
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2002 6:00 am
Location: The forest... somewhere north of Albany
Contact:

Post by Clemsy »

Carmela I tend to avoid the feminized version of the word. Actresses are actors and comediennes are comedians.

We are evolving! lol!
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

CarmelaBear
Associate
Posts: 4087
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Post by CarmelaBear »

8)
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

Myrtle
Associate
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:19 pm
Location: U.S.

Post by Myrtle »

Here's more info about Hera and possible name connections, etc.



According to Marija Gimbutas in The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe:
…Although Hera married Zeus (the Indo-European Thunder God) during the Bronze Age (probably before the thirteenth century since in the Linear B tablets both names appear side by side), archaeological records reveal her as one of the most revered and pre-eminent goddesses...

…According to Herodotus, Hera was taken over by the Greeks from the Pelasgians, the indigenous people in northern Greece. Her name e-ra, as it appears in the Linear B tablet, is not of Indo-European origin…

… Homer and Plato connected her name with the air. Ludwig Preller in 1854 in his book on Greek Mythology described Hera as a feminine aspect of the sky, the air, which encompasses the aspect of female fertility. His definition does not run counter to the functions of the prehistoric Snake Goddess, the ruler of all cosmic or heavenly waters. Archaic features to be found in portrayals of Hera betray much that links her with the Old European Snake Goddess…

The book Glyphbreaker suggests a link between Sara and Hera. Other possible Sara connections are included, for example: Asherah, Asera, Aserah, etc.:
… The linguistic evidence linking Minoan Sara to later Greek Hera is persuasive…
For link, search Google with keywords "Glyphbreaker" and "Greek goddess Hera"



And an Astarte connection:

The Religion of the Etruscans:
…the main goddess was actually Uni, the Latin Juno, who could be also worshiped as Astarte, the great goddess of the Phoenicians…
Historical Dictionary of the Etruscans:
Uni. The Etruscan female divinity, considered equivalent to the Greek Hera, the Roman Juno, and the Phoenician Astarte (as shown on the Pyrgi gold sheets).
Wiki Pyrgi Tablets:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrgi_Tablets



Hope this helps.
Myrtle

Cindy B.
Working Associate
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:49 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Cindy B. »

Cool, Myrtle, cool. 8)

I've run across a couple more things, too, including some books that weren't where they were supposed to be, that offered suggestive etymological information, so I'll share that with you soon. I'm not up for more busy work online today, and I hope to be able to get back to this by weekend's end, so please keep an eye out for me, okay? And I appreciate your sharing this excursion with me. Thanks!

Have a good weekend, Myrtle. :)

Ciao, amica!
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

Cindy B.
Working Associate
Posts: 4719
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:49 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Cindy B. »

And this for now, Myrtle, re: your information and similar ideas of mine along the lines of snakes/the ouroboros, and snakes related to and symbolic of the Great Earth Mother goddess, and a possible link to the androgynous/bisexual Hermes as symbolized by the snake as well as his depiction with wings. I happen to find this association to be really interesting given how ancient these divinities are.

Hera <--> Hermes (?)
Image

Also suggestive from your Pyrgi Tablets link: *heram(aš), Hermes idol (<heramv> 'with the Hermes idols', <herama> 'Hermes idols'). I was unaware of those tablets, so thanks. 8)

More later!

Cindy


P.S. Several years ago on the Jung board where I worked, the topic was Hermes in a different context, and I located an image of "the proto-Hermes" that was a statuette (of what material I don't recall, stone, I think), black in color, and was a coiled snake, nothing else. I'd like to share that image here, but I can't find it in my computer files for now, and neither have I found it again online so far. 'Tis quite interesting if you'd like to give that search a go, too, as you have time and only if it interests you, and I'll also keep looking. It was not Tauut (Phoenician) or Thoth (Egyptian), I'm sure, nor was it Eastern or continental African; no need to cross the Atlantic on this one either. Merci, Myrtle. :)
Last edited by Cindy B. on Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

CarmelaBear
Associate
Posts: 4087
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Post by CarmelaBear »

Myrtle, thank you for the information and references. Wonderful stuff.

:)
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

Myrtle
Associate
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:19 pm
Location: U.S.

Post by Myrtle »

You're welcome CarmelaBear

Cindy, I'll look for the image. Please let me know if you think of any additional clues. Could it have anything to do with Ningishzida?

Locked