Hera/hero etymological link; proto-Hera/Hermes

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Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

This is not the proto-Hermes that I've been looking for, but it's so freakin' close and from the right region and within the right time period that I'm prepared to give this one a rest! :D (And so the crowd goes wild!)


Image
http://www.daimonas.com/pages/snake-worship.html


About this image: "One of the 17 coiled snakes found in the so-called 'room with the idols' in Mycenae. It dates to before the 13th century BC."


It was as early as 2000 BCE that the Pelasgians settled ancient Mycenae, and I do recall that the proto-Hermes was thought to be older than this idol. My kinda', sorta', halfway educated guess is that over time the relative likeness of the prototype was preserved in these idols. The proto-Hermes that I saw differed in these respects: the head was smooth with no carving (as more ancient, less ornamentation), the color was a dark black, and the head was rising from the rear right side and facing the viewer.


And Myrtle, the word that I needed was "idol." Duh. :roll:


Kalinihta!
Last edited by Cindy B. on Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

I have a thing or two that I'm going to finish checking regarding Hera/hero, then I'm done with this one, I think. Unless, Myrtle, there's some thread that you'd like to follow. Just let me know. :)

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

Maybe we should make you, Myrto Μυρτώ, the next focus in this excursion. :P

Your Greek prototype--ha!--myrtos μυρτος is associated with both these guys, Heracles and Hermes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myrto_(mythology)


8)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

Myrtle
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Post by Myrtle »

Here's another snake image...

It's a different color, but it's from Mycenae (it looks like a cinnamon roll)

http://www.quia.com/jg/1165515list.html
Caption: "Mycenaean - Terra Cotta Figurines (Mycenae)"

This might be the same snake (black & white image/different angle): http://artsweb.bham.ac.uk/aha/kaw/Mycen ... efind2.htm
Last edited by Myrtle on Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

Cool!

More idols yet not the proto-Hermes, but you do know what this means, right, Myrtle?
We're finally on the right path with all the resources linked to that Mycenaean material. (All three of these idols come from the same snake den.) So...

Want to kept at for a while as time allows? Or how about we leave it this way: I certainly need to start doing another thing or two :roll: , and I imagine it's the same for you if you're anything like me when this sort of thing comes up. So I'm not going to abandon this, and will keep searching in the midst of everything else rather than everything else in the midst of this as it has been for me. I know the proto-Hermes is out there, and I feel more confident that it can be located again having found these idols. It's up to you, of course, Myrtle, and whatever suits you best. :)

This is important, though, for down the road, to keep in mind that the proto-Hermes looks very similar to the image I posted rather than to the other two side dish types. (Don't blame me--you brought up the cinnamon rolls. :P And sorry, life with Cindy.) And having said that, please also keep in mind the differences between the two that I described, then there's no reason for more guesswork as we go along.

Thanks for sharing this with me, Myrtle. 8)

Cindy
Last edited by Cindy B. on Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:52 am, edited 4 times in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

Myrtle
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Post by Myrtle »

Cindy B. wrote: ...and facing the viewer.
Cindy, quick question....is it facing the viewer the way this one appears to be? (snake on the left)

Mycenaean Museum
Last edited by Myrtle on Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

Awesome photos, by the way, thank you.

And yes, essentially, to your question. Now imagine a snake coiled similarly to the one I shared, i.e., more conical but not overly so rather than flat, with the coil on which the head is attached forming part of the perimeter rather than interior, and with the head rising approx. 2-3 inches from the rear right side and facing the viewer.

Obviously more than one idol, of course, would have been a proto-Hermes, so it seems likely to me, anyway, that the black color doesn't have to be definitive. You think? And I'm only guessing here, and given my experience while viewing the original photo, but what might set a proto-Hermes apart from other snake idols is the sense that the snake was oriented as if making eye contact with the viewer. It were as if a direct connection between snake and viewer was established, and to my way of thinking what likely gave such an idol its power.

I'm rather scatter-brained today, so later this evening if my focus is better, then I'll take a look around, too. And I take it that working outward from those sites with the "17 idols" is paying off? Is that how you got to your last image?

Merci beaucoup, Myrtle!
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by Myrtle »

Yes, thanks for posting the image. It has been very helpful!

Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

Yoo-hoo, Andreas!


You've been doing well, I hope. I also hope that soon you happen to wander by this thread... :P


Regarding this:
Cindy wrote: [Do] you know if Hera, by any chance, was ever called something else by the ancient Greeks? Something that doesn't seem obviously related to Hera?
I just ran across this in an article: "...Hera was originally a moon goddess and the greatest female deity in Greece--addressed as Panthon Genethla--the origin of all things..."

Can you offer an interpretation of "Genethla," by any chance, or your best guess? I've found nothing on the web, not even this name linked to other Greek sources.


Thank you! :)



P.S. Never mind...

I've since stumbled across a website about The Heraion of Samos, and in the text it's mentioned that the pre-Olympian Hera was also called the "genetrix of all things" or "panthon genethla." 8)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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