A past interview uncovered: A " Cafe' " Discussion

Are you looking for a quotation that you can't quite place? Trying to track down a hard-to-find publication? Here, folks can help you find the answers, or discuss ways for you to discover them for yourself.

Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

JamesN.
Associate
Posts: 2187
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:46 am
Location: Nashville, Tn.

Post by JamesN. »

Hey Ron, my apologies if you saw my last post. After rereading yours several times I finally realized what you were saying; ( at least I think I did ); and took mine down since I feel I misinterpreted it.

I hate getting older in this regard because one's mental sharpness begins to lose it's " edge ". :oops:

This part of David L. Miller's piece reminds me so much of Joseph Campbell's message of the " Hero's Journey ".
Conclusion

A year before I first went to the Eranos Conferences, in 1968, Christopher Logue wrote a poem for another festival, a festival celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the death of Guillaume Apollinaire. In Logue’s poem the author offered an invitation that is the sort of psychological and theological invitation that I want to give here today. Therefore, I present Logue’s poem to Apollinaire as my conclusion (Logue, 1988, p. 64):


Come to the edge.
We might fall.
Come to the edge.
It's too high!
COME TO THE EDGE!
And they came,
And he pushed,
And they flew.
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

Roncooper
Associate
Posts: 907
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:51 pm
Location: Eastern Tennessee

Post by Roncooper »

James, I have been spending my spare time studying environmental and sustainability sites, especially those with a religious background. It seems to me that these groups might have a chance to make a difference.

It is nice to read your posts. I have to admit I had trouble with the last one. I am used to papers that give a summary and present new ideas clearly at their beginning. That one was more like story telling and I was confused by all the examples that were just thrown out there as examples of the use of a word.

In the post you edited you mentioned Campbell's description of God as beyond all categories and names. From what I have read he interpreted this as meaning some sore of transcendent void and I think this is consistent with Adviata Hinduism. "Real" reality is transcendent and this everyday world is illusion. I think this interpretation comes from the "Thou art that" experience of God consciousness which feels more real than everyday life.

In my opinion this is like saying that the high a person experiences when they score the touchdown that wins the Super Bowl is reality and the rest of life is an illusion.

There is another way to get to beyond all categories and names and that is by imagining everything or the Whole, which is indescribable. It is not beyond words because it is a mystery, which it is to us, but because words are insufficient.

Campbell was a much greater scholar than I am but I think he got the interpretation wrong. From what I have been reading this last month, the newest interpretation is that God is both immanent and transcendent and not some limit beyond an edge.

I don't know if this makes any difference, but I thought I would comment anyway.

JamesN.
Associate
Posts: 2187
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:46 am
Location: Nashville, Tn.

Post by JamesN. »

Roncooper wrote:James, I have been spending my spare time studying environmental and sustainability sites, especially those with a religious background. It seems to me that these groups might have a chance to make a difference.

It is nice to read your posts. I have to admit I had trouble with the last one. I am used to papers that give a summary and present new ideas clearly at their beginning. That one was more like story telling and I was confused by all the examples that were just thrown out there as examples of the use of a word.

In the post you edited you mentioned Campbell's description of God as beyond all categories and names. From what I have read he interpreted this as meaning some sore of transcendent void and I think this is consistent with Adviata Hinduism. "Real" reality is transcendent and this everyday world is illusion. I think this interpretation comes from the "Thou art that" experience of God consciousness which feels more real than everyday life.

In my opinion this is like saying that the high a person experiences when they score the touchdown that wins the Super Bowl is reality and the rest of life is an illusion.

There is another way to get to beyond all categories and names and that is by imagining everything or the Whole, which is indescribable. It is not beyond words because it is a mystery, which it is to us, but because words are insufficient.

Campbell was a much greater scholar than I am but I think he got the interpretation wrong. From what I have been reading this last month, the newest interpretation is that God is both immanent and transcendent and not some limit beyond an edge.

I don't know if this makes any difference, but I thought I would comment anyway.
Thank you Ron; yes it indeed does make a difference. I was concerned about not only getting right what you said; but also not offending you and your post takes care of both problems. I saved and edited out the ambiguities of the original post and here are the main issues I think you mentioned.

As I recall Joseph mentions that the " idea " of what we call god is an ultimate mystery beyond reality that transcends all categories of thought. I couldn't find the exact wording in " The Power of Myth " but I know it's there; anyway you get the general idea.



I said:
The article ( to me ) is on " edges " seen as boundaries or thresholds of perception; and that we as individuals are called to " go past " them in the transformation or enlargement of our experience. The metaphors he uses I think are excellent as with the use of ( King Arthur's Round Table ) and the summons to go forth and find the " Holy Grail " of our lives. And the various mechanics he employs in the descriptions of how we view and " mold edges " IMHO are exceptional; especially the psychological. His use of Jungian themes such as " Individuation and the Collective Unconscious " from what I have read are dead center; and concerning religion I'm hearing that he is saying that not only do these edges or boundaries, become barriers; but they can also become; ( in the sense of " edge " being utilized as a vehicle of consciousness ); " thresholds " towards the raising of awareness. Not to be redundant but; ( A boundary that can be seen as a prison might also become a threshold depending how it is perceived; yes? ). For instance " Love your enemies " would be a good one; not only because it would be the charitable thing to do but also because they just might become a vehicle of your destiny. I can't quite remember exactly what Joseph Campbell said about God but as I recall it was something along the lines of " beyond all categories of thought ". And yes I understand your point about the realization that a scientific point-of-view might look at this from a different direction.........


As Joseph stated many times he saw no conflict between " religion and science "; and the whole concept of duality he talks about comes into play within this very succinct understanding. Being and non-being; right and wrong; time and space; not to mention " Darwin "; or walking on the Moon; much less the centuries of interconnected scientific facts and research that man's knowledge has been built upon and all of this absolutely " has " to be included within this paradigm; ( at least that's the way I interpret it ).
Thank you for your kind response to this because ( yes ) it bothered me; and ( yes ) I enjoy your thoughtful posts as well my friend.

More later.

Cheers
:)
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

Roncooper
Associate
Posts: 907
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:51 pm
Location: Eastern Tennessee

Post by Roncooper »

James,

I think I am getting my head around this edge idea. For me the most meaningful artistic experiences are musical, and I have said many times that I only like music with an edge. The edge takes it into a realm of direct communication with the sensual part of me. It can cut through my ordinary mind and become the direct experience of beauty.

The edge gives it a sensual power that will not be denied for the person who is open to the experience.

I loved Janis Joplin and her whiskey voice. I was lucky enough to see Big Brother in concert, bottle of Southern Comfort, and all. The warm up band was Jefferson Airplane. It was a good edgy concert. The sound was edgy and the art was groundbreaking and edgy.

Locked