The Art of Discourse II

Do you have a conversation topic that doesn't seem to fit any of the other conversations? Here is where we discuss ANYTHING about Joseph Campbell, comparative mythology, and more!

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Clemsy
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Post by Clemsy »

romansh wrote:Just an aside, another pet peeve of mine is "in order" usually followed by "to" or "for" is an unneccessary phrase in the vast majority cases.
In order that make sense I have constructed this sentence. I need more data in order understand your peeve. :lol:
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romansh
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Post by romansh »

Clemsy wrote:
romansh wrote:Just an aside, another pet peeve of mine is "in order" usually followed by "to" or "for" is an unneccessary phrase in the vast majority cases.
In order that make sense I have constructed this sentence. I need more data in order understand your peeve. :lol:
Ok

In order to shorten this sentence I have to ....
I have to write:
To shorten this sentence I have to ...

The "in order" adds nothing to the meaning of the sentence ... :roll:
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

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Post by Clemsy »

Ah, so it's the phrase itself you take exception to! I misunderstood you peeve.

But we quibble. "In order to" adds a nuance of formality that is acceptable. It is grammatically correct.
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romansh
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Post by romansh »

Clemsy wrote: a nuance of formality that is acceptable.
ah newspeak for bloated diction?

:roll: :wink:

To me "in order" betrays a lack of confidence when using infinitives.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

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Post by Clemsy »

Oh Romansh, you can have the last word in order for us to move on...
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

Clemsy
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Post by Clemsy »

Romansh,

I just realized that my response HERE does not respond to your post HERE.

I thought you were asking about the quote above rather than the quote below. Interesting example of the consequences of ambiguity. Do you see what grabbed my attention? An indication of my own insecurity, that one right there! I actually thought you were being incredibly picky and thought a bit less of you as a result.

The real answer to your question is:

This one wouldn't. It requires context. But to not appear a side stepper, here's one that may even approach what the author meant:
All expression is an illusion.
But then, maybe not.
Last edited by Clemsy on Sat May 22, 2010 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

romansh
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Post by romansh »

Clemsy wrote: The real answer to your question is:

This one wouldn't. It requires context. But to not appear a side stepper, here's one that may even approach what the author meant:
All expression is an illusion.
But then, maybe not.
OK ... I left that post alone, because I was not sure where you were coming from. I can see that a missing colon of mine could have caused the confusion.

Seriously ... I was trying to mimick the style of another poster. I strung the words together so that, although they had no meaning to me, they might appear coherent to another reader attuned to such language.

So I suppose it just proves your point: we need to write clearly otherwise we won't understand or even worse, we will insert a completely different meaning of our own.
Last edited by romansh on Sat May 22, 2010 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

Clemsy
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Post by Clemsy »

So I suppose it just proves your point: we need to write clearly otherwise we won't understand or even worse, we will insert a completely different meaning of our own.
Voila!
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Post by Evinnra »

This topic is for the discussion of how to maintain a higher order conversation, so I feel this is the right place to formally announce my request that in the future I wish to be addressed only by my username EVINNRA and not by my christian name, pet-name or any miss-spelled form of my username The reason for this request is that although addressing people with their christian names and 'pet-names' gives a tone of familiarity and good cheer to each post, it is quite possible to missuse this sense of familiarity to the detriment of the entire conversation. Therefore, in the future I too will refrain from addressing any asscoiate by any other name than their username.
'A fish popped out of the water only to be recaptured again. It is as I, a slave to all yet free of everything.'
http://evinnra-evinnra.blogspot.com

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Post by Clemsy »

You got it! I edited my post.
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Post by romansh »

Clemsy - A quick English/technical question.
A sentence like:
"You are a better man than me." I think is correct?
But is,
"You are a better man than I" also correct because of the implied "am" after "I"?
Just curious.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

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Post by Clemsy »

It is I! (Which is grammatically wrong!) I is the subject of a verb. The verb, in this case, can be 'understood' and omitted. 'Me' in this case is wrong as me has to be the object of a verb.
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romansh
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Post by romansh »

Clemsy wrote:It is I! (Which is grammatically wrong!) I is the subject of a verb. The verb, in this case, can be 'understood' and omitted. 'Me' in this case is wrong as me has to be the object of a verb.
Thanks Clemsy,
"You are a better man than I."
I have to admit I'm struggling to differentiate betweem subject and object

you kicked the ball
subject ----- object

you kicked me
subject ---- object

You are a better man than I
subject --- object ----- ???

The logic does not jump out at me?

rom
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Clemsy
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Post by Clemsy »

Please don't start a grammar thread. Please. :lol:

You----------are a better man ------------than-------------I-------(am).
subject --- verb --------- object ----- conjunction--- subject --- verb

The conjunction connects two independent clauses that can stand alone as complete sentences.
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

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Post by Neoplato »

"Than" is a conjunction? I didn't learn that on Schoolhouse Rock. :lol:

"Conjunction Junction, What's your function...."
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.

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