Fairy Tales are valid classical myth and help self discovery

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Clemsy
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Post by Clemsy »

Nandu, are we limited to to an authors intention? Surely any well constructed, personal meaning is valid, especially if it resonates.
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

gum drop
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Post by gum drop »

feminist agenda? your used to females going along with your view for $

what is your view of having a baby, so I can pretend and internalize it....and still be taken care of by you

sharibanflynn
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Post by sharibanflynn »

as Father of 5 and g father of 12.5 grandchildren... I too will never know your simple and profound statement gum drop.
The battle tween gender is the most ancient of battles and unless we cop-on (as they say here in Cork) .. one day maybe there will be two governing bodies leading each country- one for woman one for men and each having the power of veto over the other.. so if one governing body wants to go to war the other governing body can veto... dream on ..I guess!
so on that basis the equal question of ' what's your view of fathering a child, so I can pretend and internalise it and continue to take great and tender care of ye..
I still work with people who are suicidal. my main interest is in sculpture via ceramics

nandu
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Post by nandu »

Clemsy wrote:Nandu, are we limited to to an authors intention? Surely any well constructed, personal meaning is valid, especially if it resonates.
I agree. I am only surprised so many well-known fairy tales with female protagonists were ignored. :?

Nandu.
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nandu
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Post by nandu »

gum drop wrote:feminist agenda? your used to females going along with your view for $

what is your view of having a baby, so I can pretend and internalize it....and still be taken care of by you
gum drop, I did not mean anything negative by my statement. I do not generally object to feminist readings of myths and fairy tales, but this (The Ugly Duckling) was a surprising inclusion.

Nandu.
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu

romansh
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Post by romansh »

nandu wrote:
gum drop wrote:feminist agenda? your used to females going along with your view for $

what is your view of having a baby, so I can pretend and internalize it....and still be taken care of by you
gum drop, I did not mean anything negative by my statement. I do not generally object to feminist readings of myths and fairy tales, but this (The Ugly Duckling) was a surprising inclusion.

Nandu.
Whenever I have heard the ugly duckling story I have always taken the duck as a drake.

No female duckling or cygnet (pen) for that matter could ever be taken as ugly. ;)
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

nandu wrote: I do not generally object to feminist readings of myths and fairy tales, but this (The Ugly Duckling) was a surprising inclusion.
Earlier today I reread the chapter, Nandu, that included The Ugly Duckling. Other than Pinkola Estes only referencing women in her exposition, the interpersonal situations and intrapsychic effects that she focused on can also apply to the male experience in some way but with the exception, of course, of becoming a mother oneself. Did you hear nothing in that chapter that also speaks to you?

Also, she mentioned that The Ugly Duckling tale that she presented was "a translation...originally told in the Magyar language by falusias, mesoluk, rustic tellers." I was curious about other cultural variations and looked on the web with no luck. Surely, though, other variations of this tale are out there, too, somewhere.

:)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by Clemsy »

I would assume there are, Cindy, as the theme seems rather archetypal. But the story is apparently Anderson's own, so any variations on the theme will probably use different imagery, making them difficult to tack down.
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

nandu
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Post by nandu »

I personally think the ugly duckling can be of any gender. I had also taken it to be a male, like rom, but most probably because I'm male.

What I am confused about in Estes work was that she seems to be leaving out so many tales which, according to me, are crucial. Cindy, any insights?

Nandu.
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu

Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

Clemsy wrote:I would assume there are, Cindy, as the theme seems rather archetypal. But the story is apparently Anderson's own, so any variations on the theme will probably use different imagery, making them difficult to tack down.
You're right, Clemsy, that I should have said "similarly themed stories." Indexes are available that list fairy tales by theme and/or type, so if I were really feeling industrious, perhaps I could track down something, but note that "if..." :wink:
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

nandu wrote:What I am confused about in Estes work was that she seems to be leaving out so many tales which, according to me, are crucial. Cindy, any insights?
This I chock up to Pinkola Estes own personality and way of being in the world, those archetypal elements and stories that most speak to her during her lifetime, and that she chose to share with other women who might relate in some way.

And what are some of those "crucial tales" that you have in mind, Nandu?

:)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by romansh »

This is probably why I thought the duckling was a cob


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neX_E8Ozf88
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

nandu
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Post by nandu »

Cindy B. wrote:And what are some of those "crucial tales" that you have in mind, Nandu?

:)
Cindy,

I have not read the book fully, but I cannot find these tales in the index.

Little Red Riding Hood

Sleeping Beauty

Rumplestiltskin

Rapunzel


There may be other tales of significance, but these are the immediate ones I can recall. Cinderella is addressed through the similarly themed Vassilissa the Brave and an analysis of the Animal Groom is provided under Blubeard so I guess Beauty and the Beast can be considered as addressed, even though I would have expected a detailed chapter on "this most beautiful of all fairy tales" (Bruno Bettelheim - and I agree!).

Can you list down some which are significant for you?

Nandu.
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu

Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

For me personally, you mean, Nandu?
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by nandu »

Cindy B. wrote:For me personally, you mean, Nandu?
Yes, that too.

As a psychotherapist, and as a person. Only if you don't mind sharing. :D

Nandu.
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu

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