Jung (In The Weeds): Part Three

Do you have a conversation topic that doesn't seem to fit any of the other conversations? Here is where we discuss ANYTHING about Joseph Campbell, comparative mythology, and more!

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Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

Hey, folks, I'm back.

Did you take a look at Myth and Psyche: The Evolution of Consciousness? I've decided that I'd like for everyone to read this before discussing the Edinger material so that it's understood what we'll be considering. I've also added a note to this point in my original post.

It's important to always keep in the forefront that the focus is on the psyche. Let's please not stray into non-Jungian side issues. We'll maintain the focus on the psyche and its evolution and development as revealed through myths and symbols arising from the collective unconscious and archetypes.

We've also got to get a decent handle on certain Jungian concepts, or we'll drive ourselves batty (yes, a psychological term :P ). Self/god archetpe, ego/hero, conscious/unconscious, wholeness, inflation, identification, hybris, alienation...and this is just for Chapter One. Please let me know any other terms that you would like to have clarified, and we'll add them to the list.

Thanks, all.

Cindy :)
Last edited by Cindy B. on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by Andreas »

I am all set. Although it is late here and soon I have to go sleep. About inflation, I've searched the first part to find symptoms and Edinger has a lot of them. So maybe after you provide your explanations, I can post some quotes.
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki

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Post by Cindy B. »

Cool, Andreas.

Sleep well and happy dreaming!

Cindy :)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Symbiosis Model of the Psyche

Post by Cindy B. »

This is the Jungian/Edinger model of the psyche that we'll be using. So you know, the copying process distorted the images. The shapes are typically circular. Click on the image for a larger view.




Image
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by Cindy B. »

By the way, Andreas, I checked several books today and could not locate that Jung quote. Nothing so far at DPA either. Sorry.

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by nandu »

Neo and Andreas,

Since our instructor Cindy has given strict instructions to stick to Jung, I will not elaborate further on my speculations about the "reptilian brain" here. If you want we can start a new thread. However, a brief word of explanation what all this is about:

The neurologist Paul MacLean has proposed that our skull holds not one brain, but three, each representing a distinct evolutionary stratum that has formed upon the older layer before it, like an archaeological site. He calls it the "triune brain." MacLean, now the director of the Laboratory of Brain Evolution and Behaviour in Poolesville, Maryland, says that three brains operate like "three interconnected biological computers, [each] with its own special intelligence, its own subjectivity, its own sense of time and space and its own memory". He refers to these three brains as the neocortex or neo-mammalian brain, the limbic or paleo-mammalian system, and the reptilian brain, the brainstem and cerebellum (see above diagram). Each of the three brains is connected by nerves to the other two, but each seems to operate as its own brain system with distinct capacities.

This hypothesis has become a very influential paradigm, which has forced a rethink of how the brain functions. It had previously been assumed that the highest level of the brain, the neocortex, dominates the other, lower levels. MacLean has shown that this is not the case, and that the physically lower limbic system, which rules emotions, can hijack the higher mental functions when it needs to.

It is interesting that many esoteric spiritual traditions taught the same idea of three planes of consciousness and even three different brains. Gurdjieff for example referred to Man as a "three-brained being". There was one brain for the spirit, one for the soul, and one for the body. Similar ideas can be found in Kabbalah, in Platonism, and elsewhere, with the association spirit - head (the actual brain), soul - heart, and body in the belly. Here we enter also upon the chakra paradigm - the idea that points along the body or the spine correspond to nodes of consciousness, related in an ascending manner, from gross to subtle.

-----------------------------------------

The Reptilian Brain. The archipallium or primitive (reptilian) brain, or "Basal Brian", called by MacLean the "R-complex", includes the brain stem and the cerebellum, is the oldest brain. It consists of the structures of the brain stem - medulla, pons, cerebellum, mesencephalon, the oldest basal nuclei - the globus pallidus and the olfactory bulbs. In animals such as reptiles, the brain stem and cerebellum dominate. For this reason it is commonly referred to as the "reptilian brain". It has the same type of archaic behavioural programs as snakes and lizards. It is rigid, obsessive, compulsive, ritualistic and paranoid, it is "filled with ancestral memories". It keeps repeating the same behaviours over and over again, never learning from past mistakes (corresponding to what Sri Aurobindo calls the mechanical Mind). This brain controls muscles, balance and autonomic functions, such as breathing and heartbeat. This part of the brain is active, even in deep sleep.
You can read the rest of the article here:

http://www.kheper.net/topics/intelligence/MacLean.htm

My take is that the reptile brain is the seat of archetypal consciousness. Once the emerging consciousness eats the "fruit of the knowledge of good and evil" (i.e. starts to make subjective value judgements), it gets exiled from the Garden of Eden, and the serpent is cast down and vilified by God (the superego?). It is interesting to note that the Serpent/ Dragon is both feared and revered in ancient mythologies, but almost universally demonised in the Levant.

Sorry, Cindy Ma'am! No more talking in class... God promise! :D

Nandu.
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Post by Andreas »

Cindy B. wrote:By the way, Andreas, I checked several books today and could not locate that Jung quote. Nothing so far at DPA either. Sorry.

Cindy
No problem Cindy. Maybe it wants to remain a mystery for a reason. ;)
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki

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Why first things first...

Post by Cindy B. »

Yep, Nandu, the triune brain is interesting and most definitely worth talking about...in another thread if you'd like. :P But seriously, do consider it.


Here's my thinking, folks, about not bringing outside material into this discussion right now:

There are so many new concepts that are going to come up for you in this book that it's going to take a bit of time and work just to understand the Jungian material well enough to have a basic discussion about Ego and Archetype. Edinger throws the reader right into it with the assumption that a working knowledge of analytical psychology is a given. So we're in the position of having to learn more depth psychology at the same time we're trying to keep up with Edinger. My thinking for right now is first things first, and that the time for comparative and critical analyses can come down the road, please. I'm also thinking about myself, too, in the sense that my main concern right now is figuring out how to explain some of this psychology in a way that nonpsychologists can reasonably understand and put to use, and if outside material is brought in before the inside material is understood, it's simply going to be too confusing and extra work for me. Remember, I'm hoping that I can keep up with all of you, too, as we go along. :P

Thanks, all.

Cindy :)
Last edited by Cindy B. on Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by Cindy B. »

And having said that, I'm going to start working on clarifying those new terms and concepts that I mentioned above, so let me know, please, if there's anything else that might have come up for you after reviewing the links I provided on the structure of the psyche, and I'll throw that into the mix. So back with more later.

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by nandu »

Now I think this mythical image is relevant in a discussion about undifferentiated ego.

Image

The tiny infant Krishna, sucking his toe and floating on a banyan leaf on the waters of the cosmic ocean, as revealed to Sage Markandeya. This is a very potent image in India even now, and many babies wear golden lockets of this image.

Nandu.
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Post by Andreas »

Very nice image, Nandu. And the rest of the story? I really would like to read it. Thanks.

------------------

Here is what happens when the ego gets differentiated. :P

Image
The fact that Prometheus' liver is eaten by the vulture during
the day and restored at night conveys significant insight. The day
is the time of light, consciousness. The night is darkness, unconsciousness. Each one of us at night returns to that original wholeness
out of which we were born. And this is healing. It is as though
the wounding influence is not active.This indicates that consciousness
itself is the wound-producer. The eternalIy unhealed wound
of Prometheus symbolizes the consequences of the break in the
original unconscious wholeness, the alienation from the original unity. It is a constant thorn in the flesh. (Ego and Archetype, p.25)
Last edited by Andreas on Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki

Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

Cool, cool.

I do like the use of images, yet they'll make more sense once we understand what we're talking about. :P So let's not get carried away with posting images just yet. I'm trying to keep the learning process structured.

For example, right now we're focused on Chapter One: The Inflated Ego. Let's get a decent understanding of the conceptual basics, and then share supportive images as part of the discussion. Make sense?

***

And I'm going to do a web search to see if an essay exists that summarizes the particulars of Ego and Archetype. It certainly would be helpful for those who don't have the book.

Ciao!
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by Cindy B. »

Andreas,

I need your help, please, if you wouldn't mind. While I'm doing my busy work, do you mind preparing a short summary of The Inflated Ego section? There's no rush, and it's up to you. All I ask is that you run it by me first before we post it. It doesn't have to be perfect, of course, and just a paragraph to set the stage and why we even care about inflated egos at this point. :P Just let me know. And thanks.

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by nandu »

Since I've not read the book, and I'm the least well-read person on Jung in this conversation, I think I'll sit back and listen for the nonce.

Andreas, I'll give you the story later.

Already, one story I started writing at your behest (The Mahabharatha - remember?) is stalled due to laziness on my part. :oops: And here I am promising another!

Nandu.
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Post by Andreas »

Cindy - Will do and send you a PM later.

Nandu - No worries, you can also post links from websites that have already written about this. ;)
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki

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