The Story

Do you have a conversation topic that doesn't seem to fit any of the other conversations? Here is where we discuss ANYTHING about Joseph Campbell, comparative mythology, and more!

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JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Clemsy:
I'm mulling the idea that the underpinnings of our personal story is our personal myth.
Clemsy:
Life only has meaning as a story. Otherwise, it's just a series of events.
Joseph Campbell: ( from " Reflections on the Art of Living: A Joseph Campbell Companion " )
The goal of the hero's journey is yourself; finding yourself.
Clemsy:
What story do you live in?
I could not agree more with this particular approach on understanding personal narrative interpreted as one's biographical sense of individual destiny; and as a manifestation of the " Hero's Journey ". ( At least the way I see it. )

From birth through the Rites of Passage to the Funeral. From Birthdays to Weddings; from Campfire Stories to The Wake of a close friend; it's all about creating an individual history and biography that has meaning and says to life: " I am here; I lived "; and through " this telling " I have meaning and value; ( whether told silently to oneself or aloud to others ); I am on a quest of seeking answers of a " journey to myself ". Is this a personal myth or story? ( I say " yes " to both. )

If you have ever had the sense of " mystery " speaking to you through an event or some simple moment or catalyst from which other elements are suddenly engaged with a sense of " destiny " then there may be a connection to this idea of creating your " own " story.

One of the oldest examples of a story's importance is the simple phrase: " Once Upon a Time: "

Here is one small chapter of " my story " about a ( 10 cent book ) from a yard sale:

It was a sunny day as I went to the mailbox. I reached in and found a package that my cousin had sent with a 10 cent book from a yard sale that was written by a distant relative whom I had never met.

My father had just died and while settling the family affairs my Aunt; ( his sister ); had come down to help. I did not know much about my families past and as the days went by questions began to arise about various matters concerned with his life and of course the families history. My mother had also passed years earlier so this brought up even more questions about matters I had never been aware of. And as the time began to unfold I began to realize there was much I did not know.

As she patiently began to unravel this background I began to have more and more questions concerning details and reasons and all kinds of connections about earlier generations as well as my immediate past. I was told about this writer who was related and that he specialized in regional cultural fiction; and was quite a recognized and establish author.

As the days melted into weeks and the family possesions were divided up and the house was sold; I felt the last pages were closing a chapter of my life that left me with a feeling of uncertainty about where my life was going. I had realities in front of me of course; but I began to feel adrift. Once I was resettled and fell into the day to day routine of normal work and reality some of this anxiety began to subside.

But as I walked back towards the new residence turning the pages of the newly arrived book I immediately began to get drawn into the story. It was a tale about the telling of a story; ( a family story ); told to a young college graduate by a distant cousin about his own families' history. It was a dark saga about a regional " Feud " full of revenge and murder, set against the backdrop of war; with all kinds of details about regional and cultural life related to where I myself came from. I got as far as the first chair available and began to devour the book.

The spark had been ignited; the flame had been kindled; implanting a hunger to know more about my cultural identity. I had been set towards a course on an adventure that lasted eight years. From family geneology to cultural background was only the beginning. Then more cultural history and literature, then parts of the Western Cannon, then a wider curiousity of Indian, Eastern, and Asian cultures. ( I even got a job at a vintage bookstore. ) Sometimes I had five or six books going at one time till one day I discovered " Joseph Campbell ". ( I will end here for the point I was trying to establish has been made. And what I am trying to say here is this is not about my personal experience so much as it is about the process itself. )

This of course is only a small part of a much larger story of my personal narrative or adventure which I will not go on about. But my point is that lookin back " now "; when I came upon that " lynchpin or catalyst " moment I had no way of knowing that a mystery adventure had been provided for which I had been asking; ( but unknowingly ). And had it not been for discovering Joseph Campbell I would not have been able to assimilate the process. And had it not been for the mechanics as vehicle of " Story " it not only would not have happened; it could never have happened. " Story " is what lead the experience! :idea:

I certainly can not speak for those who have their own interpretations regarding what " Story " is or the functions that it serves. But this is what I have found that has come out of my own personal experience; and hopefully it might be helpful to others that are exploring this topic.

Although this not as articulate as I would like; I hope this was a somewhat better attempt for this really great thread.

Thanks Clemsy :)
Last edited by JamesN. on Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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romansh
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Post by romansh »

Goes against the core of my very being, here is a nice quote:

The Universe is made of stories, not of atoms.
Muriel Rukeyser
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

romansh wrote:Goes against the core of my very being, here is a nice quote:

The Universe is made of stories, not of atoms.
Muriel Rukeyser
Rom this is very interesting but a little unclear on the comment and quote. I really liked the link you provided on Muriel Rukeyser and found it evocative food for thought. Can you open this up a bit?

Wait a minute!
Addendum: ( My apologies Rom; I should have examined your previous post more closely! I stepped into your exchange with Steve and did not quite grasp what you were saying. At my age I find I must be more aware of this potiential. Please excuse ! ) :oops:

Cheers
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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Post by Cindy B. »

Clemsy wrote:Why do certain stories resonate with us so deeply? I think Campbell and Jung would ask, what archetypes are being stimulated? Is this another key? Archetypes have no meaning outside the structure of a story, and archetypes are the psychic symbols that bind us together. Hmmm.... Cindy territory! lol!
This old NYT article may be of interest to some: Personal Myths Bring Cohesion to the Chaos of Each Life

I want to draw attention to something not emphasized enough, though, in this introductory material: The instinctual archetypal/mythic dimension of the human psyche (the collective unconscious) shapes our perceptions and experiences as human beings, that is, what it means to be "human" and what is meaningful about being human, and is pluralistic in nature; and just as the universal human story has many archetypal themes and associated character types that may be expressed, so does the individual human story. I mention this since the question, "What is your personal myth?" can be misleading, it seems to me, and prompt one to look for a single archetypal link for understanding and meaning when the individual psyche, too, is pluralistic in nature. So when uncovering your "personal myth or story," consider what archetypal themes have emerged for you during the course of your lifetime, because each will have shaped where you find yourself in the here-and-now as well as offering clues as to where you might head next. As Jung said, "Anything psychic is Janus-faced: it looks both backwards and forwards. Because it is evolving, it is also preparing the future."

:)
Last edited by Cindy B. on Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

romansh
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Post by romansh »

JamesN. wrote:
romansh wrote:Goes against the core of my very being, here is a nice quote:
The Universe is made of stories, not of atoms.
Muriel Rukeyser
Rom this is very interesting but a little unclear on the comment and quote. I really liked the link you provided on Muriel Rukeyser and found it evocative food for thought. Can you open this up a bit?
Well some might describe my world view as deterministic. But to be honest I think it is others' interpretation of my view that is deterministic, but to be fair I can understand why.

I would like to see Muriel's context, but taken literally the metaphor while cute is sort of backward. It's atoms (star dust if we want be be more poetic) that make the stories.

Maybe I could be immortalized in a quote:
It's stardust that tells the stories. ... romansh ;)
If I could summarize all my posts in the free will and monism threads in a memorable quote this would be it.

The original quote I was chasing went something like: the universe is not made of atoms; it is made tiny stories. Muriel's thought predated the latter quote so I went with that.

Anyway my quote is closer to my worldview, that is why Muriel's quote went against the very core of my being. Having said that her quote was neat and as a metaphor it can work from certain perspectives. At least or me.
JamesN. wrote: Wait a minute!
Addendum: ( My apologies Rom; I should have examined your previous post more closely! I stepped into your exchange with Steve and ...
Cheers
Not a problem, the post was not particularly in response to Steve. It was more a reflection on where I am coming from.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

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Post by JamesN. »

Very nice posts everyone!

I'll try to get back to this later as we had a kind of rough evening with storms last night; and I am on my way to work this morning. Everything's alright but a rather bumpy night's sleep effort watching 3:00 AM tornado warnings. Weather is never boring here!

" Stardust and Carl Jung "; ( great stuff to chew on ). :wink:


Cheers 8)
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Post by nandu »

Not much time, so just a thought...

"Each atom is a story."

Nandu.
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

From: Dictionary.reference.com
sto·ry
1 [stawr-ee, stohr-ee] Show IPA noun, plural sto·ries, verb, sto·ried, sto·ry·ing.

noun
1.
a narrative, either true or fictitious, in prose or verse, designed to interest, amuse, or instruct the hearer or reader; tale.

2.
a fictitious tale, shorter and less elaborate than a novel.

3.
such narratives or tales as a branch of literature: song and story.

4.
the plot or succession of incidents of a novel, poem, drama, etc.: The characterizations were good, but the story was weak.

5.
a narration of an incident or a series of events or an example of these that is or may be narrated, as an anecdote, joke, etc.
And also:
Synonyms
1. legend, fable, romance; anecdote, record, history, chronicle. 5. recital. 7. description
.

( Just to be clear as to Clemsy's original post ):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We don't appreciate the power of story. Story, after all, is how humans make sense of the world at every level: from the personal story inside your head (and don't we like to make up stories in there! lol!) to the story of your home, family and circle of friends, to the story of your politics, to your story about the nature of existence.

Life only has meaning as a story. Otherwise, it's just a series of events.

We get along to the degree we are able to embrace the validity of each other's stories. Conflict is the tension between stories.

We are heroes to the degree we can identify and question the assumptions supporting both the larger, societal narrative and our own personal one, and break out into a new story when the old when becomes obsolete.

What story do you live in?
Now:

If I am understanding the " theme " correctly here I will add my basic thoughts along this line. ( Just saying. :wink: )

Two things I think might be worth considering in relation to this topic and some of the content offered so far:

1.) We are living in an unprecedented time of technological advances with an explosion of information that is affecting everything we think and do about how we look at the world, ourselves, and ourplace in it. Not only is our worldview expanded; but our cosmological understanding as well. The universe has opened up in ways before unimaginable; ( for instance the " Hubble Telescope " as one example ). Not to mention things like the development of the " Human Genome " in medical science or the " Computer " and " Internet " for yet others. So we are not quite the same " critters " technologically speaking as we were in earlier times when ( Story ) was utilized in various ways before things like " Smart Phones " and " Email " became so pervasive. ( Communication to be more precise. )

2.) And yet for all this deveolpment we still carry inside our minds the same basic makeup as our ancestors did deep in our " Psyche ". We still respond to symbols and emotions and instincts much the same way they did; and our need to make sense of our world and our place in it and to find meaning has not changed. Also our need to connect; hence the place " Story " and the various functions that it serves has in our lives.


( I like the way that the idea of "Myth " relates to this topic. Again from " Dictionary. reference ):


Myth

noun
1.
a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.

2.
stories or matter of this kind: realm of myth.

3.
any invented story, idea, or concept: His account of the event is pure myth.

4.
an imaginary or fictitious thing or person.

5.
an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution.


But I also think it is important that we try to individualize the way we actualize it in a personal way within the context of our own lives as long as we have an understanding of what we are doing. And I think Joseph Campbell was very much involved with helping us to accomplish this. ( IMHO )

Story used as a vehicle via: tale, saga, legend, epic, myth or some kind of transferred narrative handed down also has been a unique mystical or spiritual manisfestation of this means of connecting. And utilized as a means; it is employed to envision some kind of mental or invisible landscape in which the recipient is invited; entreated; or envoked to connect with as well as participate in his own intimate experience of interface with life as a timeless example. The Campfire, Rite and Ritual, not to mention the conversational aspect, etc.; are just a very few examples without getting too loose in application here.

" War and Peace ", " Don Quixote ", " The Divine Comedy "; are three different types of literary experience that each offer a ( unique ) yet similar element. And just as J.R.R. Tolkien's series of " Middle Earth ", or Alexander Dumas's: " d'Artagnan " Romances, or the " Shakespearean " or " Greek " Tragedies all offer separate types of this " Story " engagement; ( all ) have this kind " Journey " element of that same experience which I think is central to this idea of ( motif ) we are addressing. :idea:

Maybe a little ragged in my attempt here so I'll stop for the moment and see if anyone else has thoughts.


Cheers :)
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Post by romansh »

nandu wrote: "Each atom is a story."
Nandu.
Interesting. My question to this is who is telling the story? And who is listening?
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

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Post by nandu »

romansh wrote:
nandu wrote: "Each atom is a story."
Nandu.
Interesting. My question to this is who is telling the story? And who is listening?
We are telling the story... and we ourselves are listening. BTW, I consider this to be the case with all natural phenomena.

Nandu.
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Post by JamesN. »

nandu wrote:
romansh wrote:
nandu wrote: "Each atom is a story."
Nandu.
Interesting. My question to this is who is telling the story? And who is listening?
We are telling the story... and we ourselves are listening. BTW, I consider this to be the case with all natural phenomena.

Nandu.
This is interesting!

Remember the old ( Who, What, Where, Why, and How ) formula that students were taught in school for analytical purposes? Let us see if there are any correlations that are relative to the quote.

Let us start with the above exchange and examine the facets. For instance what happens when one ( tells ) their story and why are they telling it? ( And not just the transfer of information. :wink: )

:idea:
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Post by ALOberhoulser »

OH Clemsy - rom's story of the shoreline is priceless, no? :D

Great thread, but I had to stop reading just there & reply - magical! :idea:
Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.
~Max Planck

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Post by romansh »

JamesN. wrote: Joseph Campbell: ( from " Reflections on the Art of Living: A Joseph Campbell Companion " )
The goal of the hero's journey is yourself; finding yourself.
Whenever I look for myself, all I can see is the universe quietly staring back at me.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"

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Post by ALOberhoulser »

rom,
The metaphor of the shoreline is a great one - significantly discussed here for years - it just got me (in that magical sort of way) that it was significant in your story 8)
Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.
~Max Planck

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Post by JamesN. »

I liked it also and thought the same thing in the way life's mystery opens up! :idea:
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