The Story

Do you have a conversation topic that doesn't seem to fit any of the other conversations? Here is where we discuss ANYTHING about Joseph Campbell, comparative mythology, and more!

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Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

These two links are fine, James, but do take special note of what the author describes as Jungian in comparison to what is Freudian.

I would not recommend, though, that you pay to take any of this site's online courses. :wink: I tried to determined who owns the site and their credentials, and no such information is to be found.

And when the author is quoting Jung, you're good to go. Otherwise, check with me again if you're unsure about something on this site.

:)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by Cindy B. »

romansh wrote:
Clemsy wrote:Rom,
...hardwired into the human psyche as any other instinct.


...does answer your question, no?
Yes and no.
Are you saying that any instinct (pattern of behaviour) is an archetype? I don't think so; but if not, what is the difference between an archetypal instinct and a common or garden one (if any)?

Cindy ... thanks for the links, but they are fairly technical in a sense, and the concept is distilling into complexity instead of simplicity.

I am looking for a very simple definition of archetype that is in words I would use. if you see what I mean?
Did you read my P.S. that I added to the post as I tried to redirect you to? http://www.jcf.org/new/forum/viewtopic. ... 2883#92883

And did you see this post re: archetypes and stories? http://www.jcf.org/new/forum/viewtopic. ... 2888#92888

:)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

Clemsy wrote:...But let's take any further discussion on this to another thread, okay Rom? It's certainly worthy of one, if it doesn't fit in Cindy's Jung thread better. Cindy?
'Tis done, guys. :)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

hvete
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Post by hvete »

Thank you for the kind welcome.

As for what I've read of the conversation: the first two and the last two pages. Perhaps I should have read more before stepping in.

In reading an earlier post (I forget by whom) it struck me that how you understand Jungian archetypes, and a variety of other concepts depends fundamentally on whether you have had experience of paranormal phenomena or not. If you have not, you are prone to approach the archetype as something more akin to Kantian categories or Plato's theory of forms, as something which we by virtue of our physical (encoded in our genes) or metaphysical structure are prone to adopt as our matrix.

If you've had paranormal experience, you are more likely to think of it as something more like a physical object existing 'out there' which you either perceive or you don't. My sense from reading Jung is that he proposed his formulation as a consequence of having paranormal experiences himself, and also witnessing among his patients that they knew things they couldn't possibly have known.

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Post by Cindy B. »

Hi, hvete, and welcome!

Since Jungian conversations have tended to sidetrack this thread today, please go here and to our Jung: Part 3 thread: http://www.jcf.org/new/forum/viewtopic. ... 2900#92900

:)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by Cindy B. »

Clemsy wrote:While looking through my older files, I found this introduction to the following story. I included a shortened version of "The Horn" for contrast: http://www.jcf.org/new/forum/viewtopic. ... 2886#92886
I just want to mention, Clemsy, how much I enjoyed this post. Thanks for sharing. :)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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The angelic...

Post by Cindy B. »

As some of you may have noticed, it’s not often that I share personal information on the board. ;) (Perhaps we can address my introverted hang-ups some other time. Ha!) Yet since this story thread was started, off and on I’ve been reliving memories of two positive experiences from my early childhood and 20s, so I've decided to go ahead and share them.

So, when I was quite young, whenever I was falling asleep and in the midst of that borderland of consciousness and unconsciousness, I would hear the most beautiful choral music that was unfamiliar to me. At the time I believed that I was hearing a choir of guardian angels singing me to sleep, and I found it very comforting, of course. Some might say that this recurring auditory experience was cryptomnesia since from a young age, I’ve been drawn to choral and symphonic music. But who cares! I needed those angels, and most nights for several years they were there for me and kept me safe. :)

Since that time I’ve accumulated artwork of various types that are representations of angels and a few other mythological winged beings.

None of that, though, compares to the sunny day in my 20s when I visited St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome, and had the opportunity to sit before the stunning, stained glass depiction of the Dove of Peace surrounded by Bernini's bronze angels. And while I don’t identify myself as Christian, there’s no denying that my experience in St. Peter’s was awesome in the archetypal sense of “experiencing the numinous.” Though attenuated these days, the feeling is still with me whenever I relive the memory of that experience. :cool:

The End
Last edited by Cindy B. on Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Cindy what beautifully special and personal memories you just shared. I think we all need those magical connections that give us a sense of the " mystical " in our lives. ( And then to see them magnificently represented in great works of inspired religious art speaks of the spiritual power that founded civilizations. To me these sorts of experiences represent a kind of signal or sign we've been following on a the track that speaks to us alone. One that storybook messages of support affirm what you heard from when you were a child really do exist. We get them read to us from fairy tales and mythic legends but do Pegasus and Gods and Angels come to see us? " Halloween " is coming soon and lots of children think so; and then Christmas after that. Although common sense can't be totally ignored I think magic and wonder are essential to hard cold reality; it evokes our higher nature and Carl Jung seemed put stock in certain aspects of this from what I understand; ( yes? ). 8)
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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Post by JamesN. »

OK since Cindy braved the waters I'll share one that might fit. Although it's rather long I'll do my best to make it coherent and clear enough to be acceptable.

When I left this discussion the other day I went to hangout with a group of old friends who have been getting together once a month to reminisce about our youth and kind of reconnect. It's a small handful really; that meet at the same place where we all use to gather. And during that period 4 decades ago it came to kind of represent a symbol of the times for the city back-in-the-day; where once dozens of young people; then later sometimes even hundreds collected at the " in place " or " hot-spot " to be immersed within a festive atmosphere that provided the chance to seek adventure and life-possibilities. Many cities had a place like this; and yes there were drugs and the usual hair styles and clothing one associates with that era; but it served as more of a refuge and not the sort of wild " bacchanal " that was the impression given by the media for hippie groups of the time; And we were a rather free-spirited and rebellious bunch that were exploring the social boundaries of a conservative straight-laced community that wanted things kept as they were. Social change was in the air; and " the times they were a-changing " as the saying from one of Bob Dylan's songs went. And what's interesting about this gathering now that we are starting to evolve into the " Autumn of our lives " is that it provides a kind of long-range retrospect for us that gives one a sense of how the life-choices that you made worked out; not only for you but your friends as well. The first one of these events that started this regular get together had a very ( mystical ) moment as you will see for at it's conclusion it was almost as if there was an otherworldly presence involved.

Our gathering took place at a replica of the Greek Parthenon on the steps where we use to rendezvous and it was during a " cultural arts festival " this happened. And we were there surrounded by thousands of other folks in the park; ( complete with bands and booths that had absolutely nothing to do with us ); while trying to navigate to our little spot to meet and recognize each other; now sporting greying hair and all the attributes that age bestows with meds and walkers and bags of assorted foods and beverages to share. As the faces and stories began to connect and wipe away the mental cobwebs of confusion; the laughter and flow of conversation mixed old times with our new life realities and some of the former bonds began to restore themselves and the old sense of familiarity returned. The minutes became hours and the glow of the afternoon was all to soon about to pass when one of the group asked for a special moment to gather around at the other end of the steps which was our special spot. ( Then he told us his tale and what he wanted us to do ).

A lot had happened over the last 40 years and one of our friends had died. The story went that when he had passed his ashes had been given to this fellow since he wanted no burial and no real instructions for where his ashes were to be spread. They had been kept all these years in a drawer for safe keeping until the right time, place, and moment presented itself and he would know what to do. Of course none of us but our friend were aware of any of this and he said for some strange reason remembered " The Urn " as he was about to leave his house. So as we were gathering a small group of much younger folks; ( about the same age as we were back then had been watching and were intrigued by the incense and our makeshift ceremony we were in the midst of performing and very respectfully asked to join in. As we pause for a moment of silence and the poured ashes drifted into the wind you suddenly were overcome with this feeling that this was exactly what was suppose to happen and the way it would have been planned for it was one of his favorite places and we were all there to see him off. And as we talked about this we looked at our new young companions and explained who he was; for a short instant it felt as though perhaps he was there with us and had been honored and that a torch had been passed of youth's promise of adventure.

I thought about the poignancy of that moment for days after that and the odds against it's mystery ever happening. I don't recall how we were told this fellow had died and we were not necessarily extra close friends; but everything seemed so right the way it had all unfolded being the " Free Spirit " that he was. And although the times were so very different back then and so much has happened over the years I like to think that each of us in our own way have lived much of the promise of our moments there and found our way through our lives; though who can really say otherwise since our stories are not yet finished.

So to close my story there is one last thing I am reminded of when looking over my life that Joseph Campbell's work has helped me try and come to know. Joseph mentions that the authorship that composes one's life comes out of their own intent; and Carl Jung tells us that through the various life stages we tend to look at things from an ever-evolving point-of-view. And as Clemsy suggests: " We are who we are at the moment we engage ". But as Cindy's work with Jung has helped me to see; it is the self's journey toward ( wholeness ) that we are seeking; along with Joseph's reminder: " that it is the privilege of a lifetime to become and realize who you truly are ". We are all on that journey in one form or another I think; and to be surrounded by others of like mind is truly one of the best things that one could wish for.


Cheers :)

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Post by Cindy B. »

What an awesome experience, James. And knowing you as I do, I recognize the significance of this story for you. 8)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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