Belief and myth
Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.
-
- Associate
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:33 pm
Belief and myth
I'm sorry for a perhaps cliche title, my hope was to succinctly describe why I'm here, why I'm interested in JC, and what I have long been feeling to be my calling to realize a purposeful dedication in life. A feeling, I think, many others have inside of them too.
I just began reading The Hero With A Thousand Faces, and I've seen most of the power of myth interviews so I am not even close to being at a familiar level with JC's work. My first question is, does belief play a role in mythology's function? Must a person believe a myth in order to open up to the possibilities of life that the myth presents? This is my first question, and I'm sure I will see it later in my reading of his work.
Thanks!
Bobby
(edit: changed title to fit subject)
I just began reading The Hero With A Thousand Faces, and I've seen most of the power of myth interviews so I am not even close to being at a familiar level with JC's work. My first question is, does belief play a role in mythology's function? Must a person believe a myth in order to open up to the possibilities of life that the myth presents? This is my first question, and I'm sure I will see it later in my reading of his work.
Thanks!
Bobby
(edit: changed title to fit subject)
Last edited by BobbyEshleman on Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hello Bobby and welcome.My first question is, does belief play a role in mythology's function? Must a person believe a myth in order to open up to the possibilities of life that the myth presents? – Bobby
From my experience, it isn’t so much “belief” as coming to an understanding of the message being conveyed, using poetic and symbolic language, in a form of a metaphor.
Myths (and religions) are analogies that try to teach us how to be human.
Campbell always talked about the four functions of myths. IMHO, these functions are intended to promote a stable human psyche in a world of chaos. Here’s my summary based on “Myths to Live By” (214-215).
1. The mystical function to live and participate in the mystery of Being.
2. Provide an image of the universe in accordance with the knowledge of the time period.
3. Promote social norms.
4. Provide harmony of spirit throughout one’s life.
No “belief” required per se.
However, IMHO, the possibilities of life is a relation of "who you are" to how we experience the universe as reality.
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.
Hello, Bobby, and welcome!
And in line with what Neoplato said, consider that the power of mythology and its symbols is rooted in our shared collective unconscious and archetypes (Jung here), and that the phenomenon of belief is a conscious function that entails in some degree the concretization (literalization) of symbols that saps them of their power, so to speak.
Hope that made sense...
Cindy
And in line with what Neoplato said, consider that the power of mythology and its symbols is rooted in our shared collective unconscious and archetypes (Jung here), and that the phenomenon of belief is a conscious function that entails in some degree the concretization (literalization) of symbols that saps them of their power, so to speak.
Hope that made sense...
Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
-
- Associate
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:33 pm
Thanks for replies! Both answers make a whole lot of sense. So the power of myth is not derived from belief but is derived from understanding the myth itself. So, in a way, this is to say that myth arising from the unconscious is intrinsic to the human psyche and therefore the functions of myth don't depend on conscious belief.
Why does the literalization of myths ruin the power of the myth?
Why does the literalization of myths ruin the power of the myth?
That’s a great question.Why does the literalization of myths ruin the power of the myth? –Bobby
For me, when myths are solidified in dogma and becomes an institution, the purpose of the story is lost. Then it becomes a means of control with a set of rules that must be adhered to…or else.
It’s like “You must do as we tell you to do. We will interpret the stories for you and tell you what they mean.”; instead of discovering the meaning for yourself and coming to your own understanding.
So we have external doctrine vs. internal predisposition.
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.
Hey again, Bobby.Bobby wrote:Thanks for replies! Both answers make a whole lot of sense. So the power of myth is not derived from belief but is derived from understanding the myth itself. So, in a way, this is to say that myth arising from the unconscious is intrinsic to the human psyche and therefore the functions of myth don't depend on conscious belief.
Indeed, you got it for the most part. I just want to clarify, however, that the sociological function of myth does make use of belief, a pointed one, and in the sense that various collective attitudes and moral or ethical codes derived from mythic themes, e.g., Christian mythology/religion, provide and/or influence social structure and cultural identity within which a given group of peoples lives and functions.
This is discussed frequently on the board, and you'll find tons of talk about this when you look around, but this is the conversation that first came to my mind since I happened to have a part in it. Please take a look when you have time, and share your thoughts if you'd like: Re: Campbell's Lecture, The Vitality of MythWhy does the literalization of myths ruin the power of the myth?
No doubt others will be along soon who'll want to share their ideas about this one, too. It's a major bee in the bonnet at times. (Edit: Oops, Neoplato, didn't know that you'd already been here while I was creating my own post. Just noticed.) And I expect that Clemsy will check in soon and no doubt have better information to share from the Campbellian perspective. My background just happens to be rooted in Jungian ideas.
Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung
What I have come to understand belief is as an elevator which operates individually in people according to curiosity, or lack, of taking the elevator up or down [standing still is not an option].
The downward ride is slothfulness. This to myself means ones lack of responsibility to themselves to question that which they already consciously know.
The upward thrust is to question what is known, but not settle for the collective mind set of conformity.
Beliefs is the beginning stage for advancement. Understanding beliefs are relative only in commonality, is the next stage of advancement. Curiosity to to take what one has learned, digest and nurture for growth of understanding is the next step of advancement. Once understanding is comprehended, the move forward, beyond that comprehended, is the next advancing step upward to awaken curiosity even the more. There is no end to the stair steps going down nor up.
IMHO!
The downward ride is slothfulness. This to myself means ones lack of responsibility to themselves to question that which they already consciously know.
The upward thrust is to question what is known, but not settle for the collective mind set of conformity.
Beliefs is the beginning stage for advancement. Understanding beliefs are relative only in commonality, is the next stage of advancement. Curiosity to to take what one has learned, digest and nurture for growth of understanding is the next step of advancement. Once understanding is comprehended, the move forward, beyond that comprehended, is the next advancing step upward to awaken curiosity even the more. There is no end to the stair steps going down nor up.
IMHO!
Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
-
- Associate
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:33 pm
-
- Working Associate
- Posts: 10645
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2002 6:00 am
- Location: The forest... somewhere north of Albany
- Contact:
Welcome, BobbyEshleman!
A brief contribution...
Literalism gets sketchy when its adherents demand everyone else come along for the ride. Especially when "or else" is part of the demand.
Cheers,
Clemsy
A brief contribution...
It can. The overall purpose of myth is to put one in accord with living, as Campbell called it, "in the field of time." So whether or not one believes the myth literally or not doesn't matter in the long run if this accord has been attained.My first question is, does belief play a role in mythology's function? Must a person believe a myth in order to open up to the possibilities of life that the myth presents? – Bobby
Literalism gets sketchy when its adherents demand everyone else come along for the ride. Especially when "or else" is part of the demand.
Cheers,
Clemsy
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
Good topic !!
Hi .. Good topicto read thanks guy's
Aannemersbedrijf in Amsterdam de http://www.aannemer-gigant.nl voor verbouwingen en renovatie's van u woning.
-
- Associate
- Posts: 4087
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:51 pm
- Location: The Land of Enchantment
Hi, maik. Welcome to the Conversations.
When Campbell defined myth in a new way, as a metaphor for ideas and images that go beyond concrete, immediate experience, he freed us from the conflict posed by a knowledge of science that challenges a compelling quest for understanding of abstract and transcendent matters that precede and guide our path toward new observations of experience. Our speculations, our imaginings and our artistic creations usually presage original forms of math and empirical data mining.
I agree that this is a good topic. It is food for thought.
~
When Campbell defined myth in a new way, as a metaphor for ideas and images that go beyond concrete, immediate experience, he freed us from the conflict posed by a knowledge of science that challenges a compelling quest for understanding of abstract and transcendent matters that precede and guide our path toward new observations of experience. Our speculations, our imaginings and our artistic creations usually presage original forms of math and empirical data mining.
I agree that this is a good topic. It is food for thought.
~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene