The Samurai

Share thoughts and ideas regarding what can be done to meet contemporary humanity's need for rites of initiation and passage.

Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

Guest

Post by Guest »

I am writing a story that involves a lot of Samurai. I'm doing research on the rites and way of life of the samurai, but as always, it is always good to speak to people about it and get their (credible) views about it.

So what is the significance of the Samurai? What is the mysticism behind their actions and rituals?

I know they were a warrior caste like the kshatriyas in India, but I would like to know why they are such icons in Japan.

Waka
Associate
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:29 am
Location: somewere lost

Post by Waka »

Shamin,
I too am interested in the Samurai. One thing that I think they get the mysticism from is the teachings of Bushido, which I am sure you have heard of. One thing that really stands out to me is that Bushido is not a written down practice. Its more of an understanding of the moral and ethical ways of life the Samurai should follow. Furthrmore the Samurai were the warriors of Japan for hundreds of years Unlike anything else in the world. It also seems that they are very ritualistic people. Everything follows Bushido, the way of the warrior. The sword is said to be their soul. And the samurai would rather kill themselves than bring shame and disgrace to their family and lord.

They were the true warrior.
Better than a thousand useless words is one word that gives peace.- Buddha<br>Let yourself be free. :-)

NathanGear
Associate
Posts: 257
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:09 am

Post by NathanGear »

Campbell shared a story (I think this was in PoM) about a samurai:

Some guy had killed a samurai's lord, and as code dictates, the samurai hunted the killer down to avenge the death. The killer is found, cornered and the samurai is about to fulfill is duty, but the killer spits in the samurai's face. The warrior sheaths his sword and walks away. Avenging his master's death, to be done honourably, had to be done in a state of apathy. Avenging isn't about anger, but duty. And when he was spit upon, the samurai got angry, tainting his state of mind.

I've read that just like in any military system, there were less than honourable samurai. So just as the Marines in Haditha who decided to play by their own code of ethics (or lack of), there were some samurai who fought dirty, lied, cheated, et cetera.

<font size=-1></font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NathanGear on 2006-06-19 13:51 ]</font>

Guest

Post by Guest »

I have heard of Bushido, and one of the honours of the code is sepukku, ritualistic suicide.

But was this their only way of life? Where was this mindset birn from?

Is it true perhaps that they would perform sepukku not out of shame of not fulfilling the Way of the Samurai, but because they failed to protect the king and their kingdom?

professor octopi
Associate
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:35 am

Post by professor octopi »

for those interested in the Samurai, i would reccomend The 47 Ronin Story. it tells the story of a Daimiyo (feudal lord)who is gravely offended by a memeber of the Shogun's court(this takes place in the era of the Tokugawa Shogunate)and attacks him in the Shogun's palace, which is a capital offense. Lord Asano(the aforementioned Daimiyo) is then ordered to commit seppuku. 47 of his Samurai who have then become Ronin (masterless Samurai), proceed to plot and excecute their revenge on the court official, which happens over the course of many years. I would also reccomend The Epic of Musashi, who is said to be the greatest Samurai in the history of Japan.
"In Absentia Luci, Tenebrae Vincu" in the absence of light, darkness prevails...

Dean Whittle
Associate
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 5:00 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Post by Dean Whittle »

Shamin,

As someone who has studied Japanese martial arts for nearly 20yrs I may be able to point you in the right direction.

Firstly, many of the samurai's mystical beliefs were based around Mikkyo Buddhism, with many warrior schools teaching their practitioners various mudra (hand positions), chanting and breathing techniques to 'empower' their fighting technique. In fact, Mikkyo was a far more pervasive influence on samuari than Zen, which only became associated with the warrior arts relatively recently.

Bushido is another thing that didn't have as huge an influence on the samuari as has been made out through various mainstream media.

You may like to check out the following websites as part of your research:

http://www.e-budo.com - a very popular discussion board for practitioners of Japanese martial arts, and people interested in Japanese culture. Be warned though, some of the old timers can be 'prickly' to people asking questions who haven't used the search function first.

http://www.koryu.com - a website dedicated to the old Japanese warrior arts, with some great articles which will give you an insight into the samurai.

If you have any questions feel free to ask, and I'll do my best to answer them.

Regards

_________________
Dean Whittle

Sydney, Australia

http://www.ninjutsuaustralia.com

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dean Whittle on 2006-06-28 22:43 ]</font>

Dean Whittle
Associate
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 5:00 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Post by Dean Whittle »

Shamin,

This topic on e-budo may interest you and provide some assistance with your writing.

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34419

Regards
Dean Whittle<br><BR>Sydney, Australia<br><BR>www.ninjutsuaustralia.com

Ken O'Neill
Associate
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:05 am

Post by Ken O'Neill »

D.T. Suzuki created an immense fantasy about samura, bushido, etc - all to bolster Japanese nationalism and Imperialism. Then Heggerl wrote his Zen and the Art of Archery which, based on his activities with the SS, has been suggested for renaming as Zen and the Art of Machine Gunning Jews in Concentration Camps. His work is noteworthy since he did not speak much Japanese but was perfectly free to project whole conversations into a teacher's mouth with who he could not otherwise communicate. Was he a psychic of a physic???

The Samurai were essentially hired guns or mercenaries, greatly glorified in the Meiji period as Japan sought to revalorize its past while becoming Europeanized.

Despite Suzuki's idiotically autodidactic pronouncements (the kind Ken Wilber relies on), it was Rennyo Shonin - the 8th generation Monshu of the Honganji who challenged the military police state of shoguns and their mercenaries, the samurai. Rennyo's "equal partner" buddhism or dobokai grew immensely, empowering the downcast serfs. In turn, they came close to liberating japan of the shogun government. farm instrument weapons in budo come from that era. Rennyo and Ikkyu were apparently good buddies.

Valorizing samurai as "knights" seems misguided, as much as the standard lemming accounts of Zen as the major force in Japan - which is nonsense, suzuki propaganda for Japanese imperialism and nationalism.

It should be observed that Samrai Zen had a great appeal to the fascists of Nazi Germany, Franco's Spain, and the brown shirts of Italy during WWII.
Ken O'Neill

Dean Whittle
Associate
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 5:00 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Post by Dean Whittle »

Ken,

Interesting post, just wondering what your sources are for the comments.

Regards


Dean Whittle<br><BR>Sydney, Australia<br><BR>www.ninjutsuaustralia.com

NathanGear
Associate
Posts: 257
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:09 am

Post by NathanGear »

Eugen and the SS
============

You just ruined a book I'm reading "The Method of Zen"

What kind of Zen follower murders Jews gays and etc?

Into the trash it goes.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NathanGear on 2006-07-10 00:29 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NathanGear on 2006-07-10 01:53 ]</font>

Dean Whittle
Associate
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 5:00 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Post by Dean Whittle »

I wouldn't go to that extreme Nathan, if the SS did use it as justification for the Holocaust it would be a gross mis-interpretation of the teachings. Much like Islamic extremists using the Koran to justify suicide bombings.

Regards
Dean Whittle<br><BR>Sydney, Australia<br><BR>www.ninjutsuaustralia.com

NathanGear
Associate
Posts: 257
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:09 am

Post by NathanGear »

its not becasue its a zen book but becuase it was written by a nazi

im gay and am really bothered by nazi paraphenalia.

Im just going to buy a zen book by another author

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7-jEsNaPus


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NathanGear on 2006-07-11 01:12 ]</font>

Ken O'Neill
Associate
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:05 am

Post by Ken O'Neill »

On 2006-07-09 22:27, Dean Whittle wrote:
Ken,

Interesting post, just wondering what your sources are for the comments.

Regards
Australian scholar/practitioner Brian Victoria's Zen Goes to War, and Zen War Stories is a good start. Conference procedings published as Rude Awakenings will take you yet further.

As for Heigerl, his nazi affiliations are well known. My primary source was the late, great Buddhist Scholar Edward Conze. Prior to becoming a Buddhist scholar, Conze had been responsible in Germany for having roughly three dozen nazis assinated, then some fascists in Spain.

For Rennyo, to date one volume exists on his illustrious career, by the late Minor Rogers.

Galen Amstutz did a piece in the Journal of Japanese Religions some years ago concerning the debilitating and misleading "scholarship" of Suzuki with respect to our general understanding of the real story of Japanese Buddhism with emphasis on its major movement for the past four centuries, Jodoshinshu. Other than Amstutz, the only other Western writer to have comprehend Shin and its role in Japan was Joseph Campbell - he studied at Ryukoku University in 1956, much of that period covered in his posthumous journals under the title Sake and Satori. Joe & myself had the same buddhist mentor.



_________________
Ken O'Neill

[Moderator's note: I just edited BB-Code for proper quotation. Martin]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Martin_Weyers on 2006-07-13 08:36 ]</font>

Dean Whittle
Associate
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 5:00 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Post by Dean Whittle »

Ken,

Thanks for the response.

Herrigel has been roundly discredited from a kyudo point of view also, particularly in an article by Yamada Shoji in 2001 titled The Myth of Zen and the Art of Archery, available in pdf here (http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN...jrs/pdf/586.pdf).

You may be interested in the conversation that takes place about Herriegl here (http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5556).

Regards

_________________
Dean Whittle

Sydney, Australia

http://www.ninjutsuaustralia.com

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dean Whittle on 2006-07-11 23:00 ]</font>

Aireal
Associate
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:58 pm
Location: Mayfield, Ky.

Post by Aireal »

I enjoyed reading The Book of Five Rings, and would suggest it as reading material.

Locked