Incorporating Ritual Traditon Without Being Defined by Any O

Share thoughts and ideas regarding what can be done to meet contemporary humanity's need for rites of initiation and passage.

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mithras
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Post by mithras »

There is a deep rejection of labeling things inherent within myself. I am not "this" nor am I "that". For my own ways, there can be no one system or organized doctrine of which to completely subscribe to. I view the religions of the world as a grand mosaic, of human culture, spirituality, and potential. within this concept there is an existential foundation which yeilds a glimpse but remains otherwise esoteric in nature. Without an aggregation of diversity, one may be the pilgrim that can adorn concepts from this closet or that. There is a universal opening which occurs when one borrows spiritual doctrines and mythologies for a line here or a passage there. This occurs however without any deduction from the existential truth, because that is merely reletivism. How does one then incorporate a ritualized tradition for a family which extends beyond the boundaries of any one particular religion or system?

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mithras on 2006-10-31 22:30 ]</font>

Richard Art
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Post by Richard Art »

How can you have something by committing to nothing? Is that the question?

Clemsy
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Post by Clemsy »

How does one then incorporate a ritualized tradition for a family which extends beyond the boundaries of any one particular religion or system?
You devise your own. Borrow from others. It's the inward journey that counts most of all, not the package a set of traditions is wrapped in.
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

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Post by Evinnra »

On 2006-10-31 10:36, mithras wrote:

How does one then incorporate a ritualized tradition for a family which extends beyond the boundaries of any one particular religion or system?
How does a nuclear family – Mother, Father, Grandparents, Children and pets – develop an ideology, which suits the whole? By taking into account the different abilities and contributions of each individual. Mothers often kept for their nurturing qualities, Fathers for their strength and loyalty to defend their brood, Grandparents for their wisdom and experience, Children for their refreshing new look on things adults take for granted and pets just for fun. However, it is just an over generalisation and all families have their aggregate quality which in turn lends significance to each of the parts. What I am trying to point out here is that the emergent aggregate ‘ideology’ is what lends significance to each of its constituents.

Richard makes an excellent point by alluding to the fact that without commitment one does not amount to anything significant. So how does the Taoist sage relate to context? Since the Tao – the Way – forever changes, the Taoist Sage leaves the option open to change his/her mind and attitude about absolutely anything, to remain in tune with the Way. The sage is committed only to the Way hence you almost never find him/her in politics or in any organizations. I sense that your disdain about committing to any religion is stemming from your intuitive understanding that one must keep an open mind if one attempts to do what is best. But, what if we view our Earth as an aggregate of all religions – each believing that a higher order does exists, because precisely this belief makes any ideology a religion – and just keep our loyalty to the one we know the best while leaving the option open that an other religion will be able to answer some of our questions better than what we already know? What’s wrong with our global aggregate of religious belief depending on Muslims for passionate reverence to this higher order, on Jews for depending on mystical and highly intellectual understanding, on Christians for monogamy and forgiveness, on Hindus for complex analysis of genesis, on Buddhists for psychological support and understanding?


Evinnra

'A fish popped out of the water only to be recaptured again. It is as I, a slave to all yet free of everything.'
http://evinnra-evinnra.blogspot.com

mithras
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Post by mithras »

Perhaps, like Campbell, I am in a rut where I cannot commit to one, because I beleive in the truth of every system.

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Post by nandu »

Mithras,

No need for any commitment...no need for faith. There is a certain mythological background you grew up in. Maybe those symbols work for you best (maybe not). Use whatever you are comfortable with, accept and reject things as you proceed on the journey.

There is nothing sacred: there are no givens. There is nothing you must believe a priori. Just keep your mind free, and the journey will unfold.

You are alone on this journey: we all are.

Just enjoy it.

Nandu.
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu

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Post by bodhibliss »

On 2006-11-04 13:31, mithras wrote:
Perhaps, like Campbell, I am in a rut where I cannot commit to one, because I believe in the truth of every system.
I've noticed two trends among those who explore Joseph Campbell's ideas and observations. Campbell himself noted that many of his students at Sarah Lawrence discovered depths to their birth faith of which they were unaware - and this added dimension deepened their own commitment to the beliefs in which they were raised (generally Judaism and Christianity). Of course, both here and among the members of the Joseph Campbell Mythology Group on Yahoo, i notice that such renewed interest in one's birth faith is rarely channeled into fundamentalist and literalistic readings, but generally opens out to embrace ecumenical and mystical aspects of these traditions.

What leaps out at me even more, though, are those who are in search of a mythology that works for them. Some are led into a specific discipline from another culture (i think of a number of sincere seekers raised in a Jewish or Christian context who adopt the robes and traditions of Zen)

but far more seem to embrace a "cafeteria approach" to spirituality - borrowing a little from this mythology here, that belief system over there, and combining these into a system of personal beliefs and practices that work for them.

Joseph Campbell pointed out that in this postmodern age, absent a working cultural mythology, each individual must discover/create one's own mythology. Like the Knights of the Round Table, each ventures into the forest where the woods are thickest and there is no path.

Sociologist Paul Ray and psychologist Ruth Anderson label such individuals "cultural creatives" in a book of the same title published in the year 2000. Pegging the population of the United States at 193 million adults in 1999, they break this down into a demographic study that presents some surprising statistics.

Ray and Anderson sort the U.S. population into three broad categories: Moderns, Traditionals, and Cultural Creatives.

In brief:

Moderns believe in economic and technological progress, material success, being on top of trends, and have faith in the power of measurement (e.g., detailed standardized testing in schools, gross national product, etc.), while "rejecting the values and concerns of native peoples, rural people, Traditionals, New Agers, religious mystics."

Moderns comprise 48% of the adult U.S. population, roughly 93 million people in 1999.

Traditionals make up 24.5% of the adult population, about 48 million adults in 1999. Many - but far from all - are politically conservative, and most share traditional beliefs: men and women have distinct traditional roles and feminism is bad; the traditional family structure must be preserved; sex needs to be regulated (pornography, adultery, abortion, etc.); the Bible is the guide to life; the government should support/enforce virtuous behavior; foreigners are suspect.

Cultural Creatives are more likely to be drawn to holistic approaches in everything from health to food to spirituality, are "aggressive consumers of the arts and culture," are more likely to be careful consumers, and often have eclectic, individualistic lifestyles. They are open to and interested in the beliefs and traditions of other cultures, and often adopt a hodge-podge of beliefs from all over the globe as elements out of which they construct their own spiritual practices. Cultural Creatives fuel "the experience industry" - weekend workshops, spiritual gatherings, experiential vacations, vision quests, etc. (and, the authors note, the vendors of such services "have to be Cultural Creatives themselves, or they can't do it authentically...").

Of course, since so many of these cultural creatives are following their individual quest, entering the woods where there is no path, most don't know there are so many others like themselves.

I was suprised to learn this group comprises 26% of the population - roughly 50 million adults! That's more than the traditionals - though of course the traditionals are less scattered and diffuse than the cultural creatives, and so are easier to recognize as speaking with one voice, which gives them disproportionate political and economic clout.

Cultural creatives emerged out of the sixties - according to the Ray & Anderson only the rare individual could be so described prior to 1962.

Of course, these demographics may have shifted somewhat, especially immediately in the wake of 9/11, but there are still a sizeable number of people today forging their own way through the woods.

Though i hate being typed (and already see signs of Madison Avenue trying to take advantage of this market niche), i imagine i am one of these cultural creatives.

After waking each morning and addressing matters of personal hygiene, i sit and meditate before my altar, lighting candles and incense, intoning various chants from a variety of traditions, then just sit and breathe. After meditating, i perform two different breathing exercises, then do some chakra work, and finally form intentions for the coming day.

At the change of seasons and the cross-quarter holidays, as well as most full moons, i perform simple rituals involving smudging, candles, incense, and an elaborate tarot spread. Most summers i attend the annual Rainbow Gathering, a countercultural tribal collection that includes aging hippies, Hare Krishnas, mountain men, midwives, Hindu gurus, Native American shamans, Wiccan, Buddhists, real Rom gypsies, the occasional Australian aborigine, and a "rainbow" of other cultures and belief systems (including several Christian groups). There we build a city for twenty thousand people in the woods of a remote mountain valley, with nineteen or so different kitchens and numerous cafes, where everything is free, and those who gather are able to indulge in everything from sweat lodges and vision quests, drum circles, and initiations of all sorts - and where we all gather to hold hands in a Circle on July Fourth after a morning of silence and meditation, to pray for the healing of the Earth, for Peace, and for each Other

(yeah, sounds pretty Californian to me - but our annual gathering last year was in Colorado, and previous gatherings have been everywhere from Oregon to Utah, Missouri, Idaho, Pennsylvania, Alabama, and more, stretching back over the last thirty-plus years).

Joseph Campbell's work has made possible this fluid exchange between cultures, this emerging ability of the individual to draw on many mythic belief systems. Sitting zazen, then laying out a tarot spread after smudging the house with sage in a native american ritual, does not strike me as contradictory at all, for these rituals access the same mythic realm. Through Campbell we have learned there is a harmony beneath the surface of mythic symbols and images from different cultures.

The authors of Cultural Creatives describe an interview with Campbell in 1982:
We were new to these ideas, and we argued energetically with the eminent and exceedingly patient profesor. How could he claim that myths were so important to the coherence of a society when it was clear that, as a culture, we no longer had such myths? Certainly no guiding story was carrying our generation through the stages of life and opening us to a sacred connection, we said.

"That's exactly the point," he agreed genially.

"Well, where do we get one?" we wanted to know.

"The panorama of possibilities has made it impossible to mythologize," he announced calmly. "The individual is just going in raw. All you can do is follow your own inward life and try to stay true to that."

"That's not very helpful."

"I'm not able to correct the world, he replied. "I can tell you what a mythology is, but when you ask me how we're going to get a new one, you've gone past me level of incompetence." And then he rocked back in his chair and laughed with great amusement.


I suspect that's one of the main reasons why i like Joseph Campbell. He doesn't tell one what to believe - "this is the way, walk ye therefore in it" - or try to construct a mythology for us to implement. Instead, he provides the tools, but trusts that if you use those tools with an open heart, you will find your way...

mitakaye oyasin
bodhibliss

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bodhi_Bliss on 2006-11-05 16:22 ]</font>

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Post by Aquiessa »

You said it all bodhibliss. I struggle to find anything to add. :)
~ Don't follow Gurus who pale in your shadow ~

~ Do not speak to me of caged birds, unless it is to tell me you have set one free ~

~ Wherever there is a master, there is a slave ~

~ Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Give a man a religion and he'll starve to death praying for a fish ~

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