Reflections on Death, Mourning, and Meaning

Share thoughts and ideas regarding what can be done to meet contemporary humanity's need for rites of initiation and passage.

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JamesN.
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Reflections on Death, Mourning, and Meaning

Post by JamesN. »

Reflections on Death, Mourning, and Meaning

I noticed on another thread this topic of Death and Meaning has come up and although it is not a new subject it is perhaps one the most significant of all that we humans must consider. There are perhaps many ways that this could be presented in an analytical fashion that could promote a more scientific position and it's relevance; but being the creatures instead of textbooks that we are it might provide some interesting insight to explore it's more reflective and philosophical dimensions.

I personally also find the thought of things such as Personal Narritive of great value in the experience of processing Grief or Mourning.. Joseph Campbell had much to say on this in regards to Myth, Life, and Human Beings.

So here is an attempt to get at this from I hope a reflective, intimate; yet exploratory perspective.
Last edited by JamesN. on Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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Post by JamesN. »

Here is something we all most definitely experience.

I will start this thread with something that I think everyone can relate to; the passing of someone close.

It starts usually with something like a phone call or a personal encounter with the message: " Someone close has died ". Shock, disbelief, pain, a suspended sense of time and disorientation; and then reflections begin as you try to recover.

It has been called a " Rite of Passage "; and for both the person who has passed and those connected to them; it is a ceremony involving ritual and a kind of achemical illumination. There is the actual event and then it's experience for both those intimately involved and society as well.

But at a deeper level there is the psychic impact both to the mental and emotional levels of the living; and the distribution of responsibility in all it's facets to the deceased; such as " The Will " for instance. ( There is also the family impact as well as the societal. )

One of the most powerful and moving books I ever read on the subject was the Pulitzer Prize novel of James Agee: " A Death in the Family ". It takes the reader through the actual stages of the event as experienced through the eyes of a young child. And as the process unfolds the reader is able to get a unique perspective presented from a multi-dimensional point-of-view. Not only as viewer-( viewee ); but societal; and almost mythical-( mystical ) as well.

From the experience of the event performed as a specific Rite there are few moments that have the potiential to be as powerful; yet also as intimate. There are also component dimensions and cultural variations of this such as: The Service; and The Burial; the ( family-get-togethers ); the " Wake "; The Funneral Procession ; and so on.

But in this regard; no matter how it is experienced; what might now described as closure in the process of assimilation is I think only part of the what might be called the residual effect of this experience. ( For the impact of this most often stays with us long after this brief moment in time; sometimes even for the rest of our lives. )
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

jonsjourney
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Post by jonsjourney »

Even though it is sometimes dismissed as "pop literature", I found Tuesdays with Morrie to be an excellent book on death and the process of dying.

I like that James brought up the idea of closure. Do we ever really have closure? I have always been a bit skeptical about that, but I suppose it is a very individual thing.

For me, there really is no such thing in so much as the person, or pet, who was close to me is always there in my heart and in my head. I wonder if the idea of closure is a bit more important for a person who simply cannot accept the death of another and needs some kind of idea cultivated that will allow them to move on with their life.

I cannot extend this to anyone else, but I tend to hang on to my relationships. I reflect on my mistakes and my successes. Sometimes I want to let go, but cannot. Sometimes I want to hang on, but the emotion's salience fades into the background. Every now and then, though, a situation will come about that reignites the emotions and memories associated with the relationship that has been severed either by death, or even just two humans moving on in different directions. This seems to happen regardless of the amount of effort I have made at finding peace with the ending.

The people in our lives have a big impact on how we go forward. In a sense, they keep us anchored, or set us free, or maybe a bit of both.

An interesting thought crossed my mind as I was writing this. There is a saying that those who are dead are not dead, they're just living in my head (also lyrics from Coldplay's song '42', so yes, I am a fan!!! :lol: ). If you really think about it, almost all of our relationships exist primarily in our head and not in actual face to face interactions. Those real interactions often represent a small portion of the relationship. Much of the interactions we have with those around us happen in our heads as we reflect and project about them. We fill in the gaps with our own constructs and are constantly taking ourselves out of the moment in that process. Much of what we think about each other here on this website is fabricated in our own minds.

I think it would be fascinating to study what the proportion of actual interactions we have with others is in relation to the time spent thinking about the person or the relationship. After all, after a person dies, the relationship in our head continues on...
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." -Douglas Adams

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Jon brings up some very key issues here; as in " Tuesdays With Morrie "; that widen out this topic. Not only for the " ending of life; but for the living of life " as well.

1.) The " Process of Dying " is one that has tremendous implications for the living as well as the person affected. ( Hospice care might be just one example. ) Also those whose health condition is in a state of struggle " For Life " as in say Cancer treatment; ( for they are on the edge of the interface between life and death ).

2.) The effect of Loss after the event and it's residual effects with not only grief but the loss of resourses; say for children, spouses, buisnesses, or other relationships.

3.) And of course as just mentioned; the impact that memory plays in coloring or shaping our perceptions as the initial grieving process has begun to move forward.

4.) The interface between public and private is yet another area of interplay in the various stages of this event as it evolves.

5.) And one of the most important aspects is of course that of meaning and what we as individuals draw from this most personal and intimate of experiences. And this experience has the potential to have one of the most powerful effects of all in the enhancement of how we live our lives.

If our lives are built on relationships then the consideration of their loss would seem to have the greatest effect and impact in both perception and motivations. The sense of purpose in the interaction of life and the meanings extracted from this engagement are directly related to these relationships both present and lost from us by this dance or process of living and dying itself.
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Post by CarmelaBear »

JamesN. wrote: If our lives are built on relationships then the consideration of their loss would seem to have the greatest effect and impact in both perception and motivations. The sense of purpose in the interaction of life and the meanings extracted from this engagement are directly related to these relationships both present and lost from us by this dance or process of living and dying itself.
There are three mythological tools that come into play when we are dealing with deaths of people who matter to us, and "matter" does not necessarity indicate love or affection. Sometimes, we kill and dishonor and forget people after they have been either judged and condemned or disregarded as mere collateral damage.

1) Words and pictures (personal and through media of every kind)

2) Symbols (including both funerary and institutional)

3) Monuments (and the lack thereof)

When we wish to honor the dead, we remember them well and provide dignified and loving attention to remembrances.

When we dishonor and demonize the dead, we show pictures of unnamed and bloodied bodies on the news. We note the execution of a human being as if we were bragging of our callousness. We forget in a million ways. We sometimes celebrate the death of a person or otherwise indicate our disdain or hatred.

An assasination may be the occasion for dancing in the streets.

A president may brag about shooting an unarmed man in cold blood as one of his greatest, most wonderful and powerful achievements.

There are deaths that are experienced as loss, and they are mourned.

There are deaths that are experienced as something else.

Mythical rites can be utilized in either instance, as the means to express human emotion and thought along a wide and deep continuum.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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Post by JamesN. »

Carmela;

This is a really nice exploration into many of the dimensional considerations. ( This is a huge topic.) And one of the major themes of the reconciliation between Life and Death is of course not only how we experience it; but also how we perceive it.

Joseph Campbell time and again would refer to this sense of interface between life and death and the knowledge of this as a requirement of engagement as one of life's most important messages. " Life is always on the verge of death " or: " razors edge "; seem to be two of these references I remember that come to mind. The point he was making if I am correct here; is this understanding of not only this zeal in living; but this knowledge of death that you are in relation to; ( with each one informing the other ).

" The Power of Myth " talks about this aspect in great length in " The First Storytellers " in the way ancient societies dealt with the harsh realities of survival; and this reconciliation to the realization of the acts of living and this sense of the very " transcedent nature " of life itself.

And indeed many of the early " Rites " themselves had to do with these various dimensional aspects this " Great Mystery " that throughout human history up until today we all ride upon.

Of course the experience and realization of what this means is in itself part of the message and part of the journey itself. :idea:
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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Post by CarmelaBear »

Image

Day of the Dead (Spanish: Día de los Muertos) is a Mexican holiday celebrated throughout Mexico and around the world in other cultures. The holiday focuses on gatherings of family and friends to pray for and remember friends and family members who have died. It is particularly celebrated in Mexico, where it is a national holiday, and all banks are closed. The celebration takes place on November 1st, in connection with the Catholic holidays of All Saints' Day and All Souls' Day (November 2). Traditions connected with the holiday include building private altars honoring the deceased using sugar skulls, marigolds, and the favorite foods and beverages of the departed and visiting graves with these as gifts. They also leave possessions of the deceased.

Scholars trace the origins of the modern Mexican holiday to indigenous observances dating back hundreds of years and to an Aztec festival dedicated to the goddess Mictecacihuatl. The holiday has spread throughout the world: In Brazil, Dia de Finados is a public holiday that many Brazilians celebrate by visiting cemeteries and churches. In Spain, there are festivals and parades, and, at the end of the day, people gather at cemeteries and pray for their dead loved ones. Similar observances occur elsewhere in Europe, and similarly themed celebrations appear in many Asian and African cultures.

----Wikipedia
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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Post by Cindy B. »

8)
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Post by jonsjourney »

Carmela...

Thanks for sharing that, I had forgotten about it. It is interesting to me that in some ways this day of celebration turns the idea of mourning processes being more about the living than the dead around. The emphasis, it appears to me, of this day is on those who have died and not on those who have survived.

Am I overstating this or missing it entirely? What do you think?
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." -Douglas Adams

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Post by CarmelaBear »

This is from a piece called, "The Religion of the Future" by Harvard Law Professor Roberto Mangabeira Unger.
We shall soon die and waste away and be forgotten, although we feel that we should not. We shall die without having understood what this strange world, and our brief time within it, are really about.

Our religion should begin in the recognition of these terrifying facts rather than in their denial, as religion traditionally has. It should arouse us to change society, culture, and ourselves so that we become – all of us, not just a happy few – bigger as well as more equal, and take for ourselves a larger part of the qualities we have attributed to God. It should therefore, as well, make us more willing to unprotect ourselves for the sake of bigness and of love. It should convince us to exchange serenity for searching.

Then, so long as we live we shall have a greater life, and draw further away from the idols but closer to one another, and be deathless, temporarily
He talks about the "divinization of humanity" (we can all live with intensity, so as to transcend the reality of death), the transformation of the social order (toward equality and democracy) and a worldwide revolution in both institutions (through political engagement) and an enlargement of consciousness (through religion and spiritual beliefs).

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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Post by CarmelaBear »

jonsjourney wrote:Carmela...

Thanks for sharing that, I had forgotten about it. It is interesting to me that in some ways this day of celebration turns the idea of mourning processes being more about the living than the dead around. The emphasis, it appears to me, of this day is on those who have died and not on those who have survived.

Am I overstating this or missing it entirely? What do you think?
In Mexico, they say that you are not really dead until you are forgotten.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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Post by jonsjourney »

In Mexico, they say that you are not really dead until you are forgotten. -CB
Interesting!

This seems to blur the border between mourning being for those left behind or those who have died. After all, the fear of being forgotten is certainly for the living!
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." -Douglas Adams

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Post by CarmelaBear »

jonsjourney wrote: This seems to blur the border between mourning being for those left behind or those who have died. After all, the fear of being forgotten is certainly for the living!
The continuity of family as an institution (complete with ritual and remembrance) gives a limited timebound life experience a grounding in something beyond the mortal coil. The knowledge that you are remembering your kin and that those who live after you will, in turn remember you, can help us live now.

Part of the celebration is familial sentimentality, but mostly it is a continuity of poetry, songs, art, color, life and vitality that builds on the works and loves of those who stretch our lives out through time past and give us the courage to look toward a future that is within our grasp, here and now.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

CarmelaBear
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Post by CarmelaBear »

A psychotherapist exercise:

Imagine yourself on your deathbed.

Invite all the people who are most important to you to be by your bedside.

Speak to them.

Tell them how you feel about them, and say good-bye.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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Post by CarmelaBear »

I tried the exercise. It turned me into an emotional disaster area, and when I got past the devastation, I could breathe.

It brought clarity......sweet and true.

I recommend this exercise to anyone who wants to feel free.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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