Reflections on Death, Mourning, and Meaning

Share thoughts and ideas regarding what can be done to meet contemporary humanity's need for rites of initiation and passage.

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JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

A very insightful and illuminating approach for us all to consider Carmela. ( One never knows when this perspective might actually come into play. )

Thank you for sharing this. :idea:
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JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Hello everyone.

Every now and then I think we all have our perception and understanding of the experience of death deepened or altered a little by an unexpected illunimation of some sort. I have had two in recent days that have reminded me of not only life's fragility and temperality but also by death's ability to clarify. I and many others here I'm sure; have been through this process in a variety of ways for as we all know this interplay with death is a major component of life itself.

The first event was a pet who I have been nuturing the last couple of weeks as she began to sucome to what we think may have been cancer. And as she began to waste and weaken to the point of hand feeding I found myself becoming more and more drawn into the experience of just being there with her in a kind of timeless exchanged moment of love and heartbreak at the same time. Of course every time you are dealing with the process of dying one can't help but think not only of their suffering but also of being reminded of all those questions concerning your own mortality. Also there is the thought of who you will be loosing right there in front of you and and the gift of life itself. There is almost a surrealness to the atmosphere because they are still there with you for the moment but you know that time is fleeting. And then you are finally called to let them go; ( whether a pet; a family member; or someone you know ); the end is always the same in it's finality. If you are fortunate and are able to say goodby in some way the hurt may be lessened a little and the mourning and sense of closure can begin.

This brings me to the second example. We have all been very affected by this weekend's recent shootings at the " Sandy Hook " school. And now the media swarm has begun and there is now a legislative momentun for gun control and both the nation and the poor folks involved are just trying to recover and get some sense of control back in their lives so they can move on. ( This is most certainly to be expected with the compassionate support of a community and a nation. )

But one of the things that may be lost in all of this ( grownup stuff ) and that might help all of us in this process of contemplating and trying to understand what has happened is to ask the question: " What if you are 6 years old? " How does a little child begin to digest this? "

This may be one of the most important portals of insight for truely comprehending where we are right now and to get a reading on the direction we may need to be thinking about.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/hea ... 02176.html
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

Please look for my PM, James. :)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by creekmary »

An exercise I try to perform regularly to keep priorities and perspective in line - "if I knew I was going to die...tonight, tomorrow, next week, whenever, would I consider this activity or lifestyle or (fill in the blank) very important?" Because every breath of life is a gift. You never know. I might not be here tonight or tomorrow or the next day, so that's how I try to think.

Susan

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Post by JamesN. »

Creekmary said:
An exercise I try to perform regularly to keep priorities and perspective in line - "if I knew I was going to die...tonight, tomorrow, next week, whenever, would I consider this activity or lifestyle or (fill in the blank) very important?" Because every breath of life is a gift. You never know. I might not be here tonight or tomorrow or the next day, so that's how I try to think.
Susan;
That is such a poignant and insightful example of mindful living. Life is so precious and we are only here for such a brief moment in time. Turning the experience of living into such a beautiful meditation is truely an inspiring thought to share; and something we should all consider. Very moving. Thank you. :idea:

A came across this and perhaps it might in some way compliment your " wonderful " post:
Last Things

We're a very busy society. We work hard, we play hard and we seldom take time to smell the roses. But, one thing that I have observed is that once something is gone, it's usually gone forever. Most often we are unaware of the last times, the last time that you kissed your child when he was still a child, the last time that you ran out of your house, letting the screen door slam to go and play with your friends, before the house was sold and you moved away, the last time you kissed your lover before the relationship went south.

Yes, we seldom see it coming. But, if you did see it coming you might take the time to indelibly impress upon your memory the pleasures of the moment, you might consciously remember the little things that make life worth living. We are so busy dying that we seldom take time to live. Rush, rush, rush that's what we do, we rush towards death. We rush about to get the kids off to school, we rush to work so that we appear valuable and can retain our positions, we rush to the store, to the doctors, to make dinner. We rush through life and in the rush we neglect to truly live.

The opposite of love is not hate, the opposite of love is apathy and neglect. Only when you live life purposefully, appreciating every little wonderful thing will you live life to the fullest. Kiss your baby while he or she is still a baby, once they are grown they are grown forever, enjoy it when they cry and when they are messy and when they laugh. Hold your lover like it's the last time you will ever see them, because it just might be, don't take them for granted, ignore the stupid little things in favor of the beautiful wonderful things. Appreciate the taste of your mother's recipes and your favorite bistro for who knows what tomorrow will bring and if you will ever taste those things again. Live life purposefully savoring every bit and piece, nook and cranny, blue sky and stormy day and you will never die with regret. As someone once wrote: "I shall pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show - let me not defer nor neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again."
( BTW; here is the link where I found it. ):

http://brie-hoffman.hubpages.com/hub/I- ... y-But-Once


I would also like to add one more compliment to Susan's post. Sometimes the world can be a pretty scary place to live in; or maybe something not so pleasant has happened; or you just might have the regular ole' down-in-the-dumps " Blues. " It's posts like hers that really helps to put things in their proper perspective. Thanks for the " Wakeup " Susan! 8)
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

The recent post brought to mind this song I heard as I was riding to work this morning which I think frames perfectly the importance of connection to life's fragility. It was written about a son's remorse at the the passing of his father. :idea:

The video is on the right of the page so you can read the lyrics as it plays:

http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/mike_ ... years.html

( Here is a little background ):
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Living Years" is a pop rock ballad written by Mike Rutherford and B. A. Robertson, and recorded by Rutherford's English rock band Mike + The Mechanics. It was released in December 1988 in the UK and January 1989 in the US as the second single from their album, Living Years. The song was a chart hit around the world, topping the US Billboard Hot 100 on 25 March 1989,[1] and reaching No.1 in Canada and Australia and No.2 in the UK. It spent four weeks at No. 1 on the US Adult Contemporary chart. Paul Carrack sings lead vocals on the track.

The song, which addresses a son's regret over unresolved conflicts with his now-deceased father,[2] famously moved veteran entertainer Rolf Harris to tears, live on UK breakfast television in December 1988.[3] It won the Ivor Novello Award for Best Song Musically & Lyrically in 1989,[4] and was nominated for the Grammy Award for Song of the Year in 1990. In 1996, famed composer Burt Bacharach remarked: "'The Living Years' is one of the finest lyrics of the last 10 years."[5]

In 2004, "The Living Years" wa

Also this one about remorse from a different perspective comes to mind as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVbkz_3lO3c

Here is some info from Wikipedia:

"Angel" (sometimes mis-titled as "In the Arms of the Angel" or simply "Arms of the Angel") is a song by Sarah McLachlan that originally appeared on her 1997 album Surfacing. As McLachlan explained on VH1 Storytellers, the song is about the Smashing Pumpkins touring keyboard player Jonathan Melvoin, who overdosed on heroin and died in 1996.
"Angel" was McLachlan's second consecutive top five hit on the Billboard Hot 100 chart, debuting at number twelve, and then jumping to the top ten the following week, before peaking at number four. It remained at the top ten for nineteen weeks, and for twenty-nine weeks in the top 100. "Angel" was the eighteenth most successful song of 1999.

"Angel" was one of the first songs written for Surfacing. McLachlan said that writing it was easy, "a real joyous occasion."[1] It was inspired by articles that she read in Rolling Stone about musicians turning to heroin to cope with the pressures of the music industry and subsequently overdosing.[1][2] She said that she identified with the feelings that might lead someone to use heroin: "I've been in that place where you've messed up and you're so lost that you don't know who you are anymore, and you're miserable—and here's this escape route. I've never done heroin, but I've done plenty of other things to escape."[1] She said that the song is about "trying not to take responsibility for other people's problems and trying to love yourself at the same time".

And one last song that is probably known worldwide; ( Eric Clapton's: " Tears In Heaven " ). It is about the remorse of a parent losing a child.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSbqm7ZK_9s

Again from Wikipedia:
"Tears in Heaven" is a song by Eric Clapton and Will Jennings from the soundtrack to the film Rush. The song was written about the pain and loss Clapton felt following the death of his four-year-old son,[1] Conor. Conor fell from a window of the 53rd-floor New York apartment owned by his mother's friend on March 20, 1991. Clapton arrived at the apartment shortly after the accident.[2] "Tears in Heaven" is one of Clapton's most successful songs, as it reached number two on the Billboard Hot 100 singles chart in the U.S. The song also stayed three weeks as #1 on the American adult contemporary chart in 1992.

Jennings, who worked with Clapton on the song, was reluctant at first to help him write a personal song.[1] The song was initially featured on the soundtrack to the film Rush, followed by the album Unplugged, and it won three Grammy Awards—Song of the Year, Record of the Year and Male Pop Vocal Performance at the 1993 Grammy Awards.[3] It also won an MTV Video Music Award for Best Male Video in 1992.[4]

Clapton stopped playing it in 2004, as well as the song "My Father's Eyes", with Clapton stating; "I didn't feel the loss anymore, which is so much a part of performing those songs. I really have to connect with the feelings that were there when I wrote them. They're kind of gone and I really don't want them to come back, particularly. My life is different now. They probably just need a rest and maybe I'll introduce them for a much more detached point of view.".[5] Clapton eventually resurrected both songs for his Old Sock tour in 2013.

Shortly after his single was released, he went on to the MTV Unplugged series and recorded a new version of the song.[6]

[edit] Writing and inspiration

The years following 1990 were extremely turbulent for Clapton. In August 1990, his manager and two of his roadies (along with fellow musician Stevie Ray Vaughan) were killed in a helicopter accident. Seven months later, on March 21, 1991, Clapton's four-year-old son Conor died after falling from the 53rd-floor window of his mother's friend's New York City apartment. He landed on the roof of an adjacent four-story building.[7] After isolating himself for a period, Clapton began working again, writing music for a movie about drug addiction called Rush. Clapton dealt with the grief of his son's death by co-writing "Tears in Heaven" with Will Jennings. A live performance of the song appears on Clapton's 1992 Unplugged.[8] Unplugged topped charts and was nominated for nine Grammy Awards the year it was released. Clapton made numerous public service announcements to raise awareness for childproofing windows and staircases.[8]

In an interview with Daphne Barak, Clapton stated, "I almost subconsciously used music for myself as a healing agent, and lo and behold, it worked... I have got a great deal of happiness and a great deal of healing from music".[9]

In an interview, Will Jennings said:

"Eric and I were engaged to write a song for a movie called Rush. We wrote a song called 'Help Me Up' for the end of the movie... then Eric saw another place in the movie for a song and he said to me, 'I want to write a song about my boy.' Eric had the first verse of the song written, which, to me, is all the song, but he wanted me to write the rest of the verse lines and the release ('Time can bring you down, time can bend your knees...'), even though I told him that it was so personal he should write everything himself. He told me that he had admired the work I did with Steve Winwood and finally there was nothing else but to do as he requested, despite the sensitivity of the subject. This is a song so personal and so sad that it is unique in my experience of writing songs."[2]

Music used as an " agent " can be such a powerful tool for searching deep into the depths of human emotion where few things can reach; and can also be a resource in the healing process of grief, resolution, and closure as well.
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

For anyone interested in this area of topical concern here is an article I came across that I think has very serious connections to any societal understanding of not only what grief means; but more important what it's relationship to depression is.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/fig ... 09787.html

( Cindy as a professional do you have particular thoughts on this? )

To me it seems to raise a red flag towards ( both ) the public's lack of understanding and what the clinical " interpretation " might be of ( what depression is ). Not just the " grief process "; but separating the diagnostic determinations from this larger medical " debate"; ( if I'm asking this correctly ). :?:

Is it tied into some of these misconceptions concerning the larger public discourse about mental behavior connected to " psychosis "; or is it tethered more to a clinical diagnostic issue or both? ( I'm thinking in terms of the loss of hope, loss of a love one, or loss of self-esteem, or any connection with the ability to " cope " with depression and grief. ) I realize this may be a little nebulous and my articulation may be somewhat lacking here. :roll:

I'm addressing this concern to the larger overall picture of individual patient care ( and ) the greater public good; as well as treatment and it's surrounding conditions; ( not just classifying the bereavement period ). Again if I am phrasing this clearly.

Again to be clear: " What is the relationship of depression and grief? " Not just separate definitions; but in interaction or interplay. I realize that there are plenty of journals covering different dimensions of this subject; but the article seemed to raise very " specific " concerns about diagnosis and even more concerns about " definitions of interpretation ". ( Am I on the right track here with this? ) :? ( Carl Jung or Joseph Campbell may have interpretations you can use. ) Your thoughts; ( ambivalent or otherwise ); would be of great assistance.

Seems like " very serious " murky water here to me; but I am not really as informed or trained as you are in this area. :wink:
Last edited by JamesN. on Sun May 19, 2013 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

I've yet to see the new DSM-5, James, because it was just released for sale, literally, yesterday. I'd like to see for myself the diagnostic changes made and read the accompanying rationale for those changes. As for the article, I'll give it a good read tomorrow. I just got back into town after attending my older daughter's university graduation ceremony. I'm the proud Mama of a newly minted music educator who graduated magna cum laude. :D
Last edited by Cindy B. on Sun May 19, 2013 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Cindy:
I just got back into town after attending my older daughter's university graduation ceremony. I'm the proud Mama of a newly minted music educator who graduated magna cum laude. :D
Cindy how thrilling! That is absolutely " Fabulous " :!: 8) :D
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Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

Thanks, James. :)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

gum drop
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Post by gum drop »

sorry
Last edited by gum drop on Wed May 22, 2013 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Edited: 6/01/13
Last edited by JamesN. on Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Clemsy »

According to a psychiatrist I know, the new DSM is so bad professionals will stop using it for billing purposes and instead use the International Classification of Disease (ICD).

I found this to be a fascinating read:

The Real Problems With Psychiatry
A psychotherapist contends that the DSM, psychiatry's "bible" that defines all mental illness, is not scientific but a product of unscrupulous politics and bureaucracy.
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Thanks Clemsy; 8)

A " great " read that I want to digest again along with rereading the others. I really think this is " Big " deal; ( no make that a " Huge " deal across the board ); from all I have read so far. I'm waiting to hear Cindy's take because as a professional therapist she has to confront these implications in her work. I'm a little out of my depth on this and I'm really trying to understand what's going on here. I really liked Greenberg's last remark: " Take it away from them! " :lol:
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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