Mythology and Religion: In The News
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I get it Ron and I agree with you. Scientists also treat religion not as metaphorical of the transcendent mystery but as something factual .. They are stuck with their image, the others guys are stuck with their image, we are stuck with an image...
Oh well...
Oh well...
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki
Very well put. Part of our image is scientific fact and we should accept this, but it is only part. We are forced to rely on reason and personal experience to fill out the image.
I remember reading an interesting statement about the hierarchy of knowledge from Vishishtadvaita Hinduism. To summarize it said:
If you have a question look to science for an answer. If it is not found there look to personal experience. If that fails look to reason, and if all of these fail look to dogma.
I thought that was a reasonable approach.
I remember reading an interesting statement about the hierarchy of knowledge from Vishishtadvaita Hinduism. To summarize it said:
If you have a question look to science for an answer. If it is not found there look to personal experience. If that fails look to reason, and if all of these fail look to dogma.
I thought that was a reasonable approach.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton
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So do the vast majority of Christians and Muslims at least to some degree. Not sure about Jews.Andreas wrote:Scientists also treat religion not as metaphorical of the transcendent mystery but as something factual .. They are stuck with their image, the others guys are stuck with their image, we are stuck with an image...
Oh well...
Now (atheistic) scientists as whole argue against interpreting scriptures literally (as we do here, do we not?) and would encourage a metaphorical interpretation.
And based on what I have read, approximately 60% of scientists are believers in some shape, form or another. So these "scientists" I suspect are a little apocryphal.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
Rom,
Thank you for the explanation about Sagan.
Thank you for the explanation about Sagan.
Last edited by Roncooper on Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton
I wrote 2 days ago:
Not bad synchronicity. Out of nowhere and less than two days after my post.
I strongly recommend the movie, especially if you enjoy music. It is a real teaching moment.
I just had a moment of synchronicity. i posted this two days ago and I just received an email from The Institute for Sacred Activism. The email was advertising a new book by Andrew Harvey which is about his interviews with Seymour Bernstein, a concert pianist. It also mentioned a movie called "Seymour an Introduction," which has won awards. I went to Netflix and started watching it. About eight minutes in he recalled the first time he played a piano at home. He was 5 or 6 years old. He said he began crying as he played and his mother asked him why. He replied that this was the most beautiful music he had ever heard.I believe that the drive to play the piano comes from the experience of beautiful sound. The child hears beautiful music and wants more. The child takes up the piano because the sound from the piano is pleasing, and as they practice their brain develops in a way that enhances this experience of beauty.
Not bad synchronicity. Out of nowhere and less than two days after my post.
I strongly recommend the movie, especially if you enjoy music. It is a real teaching moment.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton
Rom, for me a metaphorical interpretation besides the obvious explanations we can give, also has meta-physical properties, a loaded term I know but still... not everything can be explained with logic.romansh wrote:So do the vast majority of Christians and Muslims at least to some degree. Not sure about Jews.Andreas wrote:Scientists also treat religion not as metaphorical of the transcendent mystery but as something factual .. They are stuck with their image, the others guys are stuck with their image, we are stuck with an image...
Oh well...
Now (atheistic) scientists as whole argue against interpreting scriptures literally (as we do here, do we not?) and would encourage a metaphorical interpretation.
And based on what I have read, approximately 60% of scientists are believers in some shape, form or another. So these "scientists" I suspect are a little apocryphal.
So yeah even though I don't like religion either.. I feel that science as philosophy or mythology doesn't offer anything different.. That's my main issue with science. Other than that I find a lot of the discoveries and the observations we make very fascinating, yes.. even spiritual..
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki
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My point remains, some scientists, and perhaps even Campbellians would advise against a literal scriptural interpretation; even some progressive religionists and I suspect many Buddhists.Andreas wrote: Rom, for me a metaphorical interpretation besides the obvious explanations we can give, also has meta-physical properties, a loaded term I know but still... not everything can be explained with logic.
So yeah even though I don't like religion either.. I feel that science as philosophy or mythology doesn't offer anything different.. That's my main issue with science. Other than that I find a lot of the discoveries and the observations we make very fascinating, yes.. even spiritual..
I am not sure what metaphysics is, other than a book next to a book on physics.
We don't have to make stuff up to make this world somehow more palatable: it is fine as it is. Even Greece.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
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Andreas wrote:Rom, for me a metaphorical interpretation besides the obvious explanations we can give, also has meta-physical properties, a loaded term I know but still... not everything can be explained with logic.romansh wrote:So do the vast majority of Christians and Muslims at least to some degree. Not sure about Jews.Andreas wrote:Scientists also treat religion not as metaphorical of the transcendent mystery but as something factual .. They are stuck with their image, the others guys are stuck with their image, we are stuck with an image...
Oh well...
Now (atheistic) scientists as whole argue against interpreting scriptures literally (as we do here, do we not?) and would encourage a metaphorical interpretation.
And based on what I have read, approximately 60% of scientists are believers in some shape, form or another. So these "scientists" I suspect are a little apocryphal.
So yeah even though I don't like religion either.. I feel that science as philosophy or mythology doesn't offer anything different.. That's my main issue with science. Other than that I find a lot of the discoveries and the observations we make very fascinating, yes.. even spiritual..
I hear talk come up occasionally on the news or different websites that kids don't show an interest in science that the pro's think they should.
I can only speak for myself,but at times it feels as if even the scientist,the pro's themselves present things so "dull" and drab I'm surprise anyone can pay attention.
Yes, I understand the light is a burning ball of gas and other things that is all ready gone, and the light from that place is just now reaching my eyes.
I get it.
But sometimes saying it's a dead hero getting ready to slay an eternal bull or whatever other animal you want to insert "___",just gives it so much more meaning to me.
The idea of the universe as a hologram did however,keep me fascinated for a long,long time.
A ship is safe in harbor,but that's not why a ship is built.
Hey lanc,
Agreed
Romansh, I hope you didnt misunderstood my reply as not caring for our very interesting conversations. But "The world is fine" is not an argument. If that was true nobody would care to make any conversations or change things but we do. Anyway I hope this is more clear now.
Agreed
Romansh, I hope you didnt misunderstood my reply as not caring for our very interesting conversations. But "The world is fine" is not an argument. If that was true nobody would care to make any conversations or change things but we do. Anyway I hope this is more clear now.
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki
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No problem, I am relatively speaking thick skinned and insensitive ...Andreas wrote:Hey lanc,
Agreed
Romansh, I hope you didnt misunderstood my reply as not caring for our very interesting conversations. But "The world is fine" is not an argument. If that was true nobody would care to make any conversations or change things but we do. Anyway I hope this is more clear now.
I think Campbell's three types of religions fit in nicely here:
- 1) religions that celebrate nature and accept things are place in the circle of life.
2) religions that want to withdraw from life .
3) religions that want to make life better (in the sense of less evil rather than easier).
But that is OK too.
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
IMHO all of these have a common thread in that they all want to enhance the experience of the transcendent mystery. They all strive for more love, awe, honor, beauty, mystic experience, etc.
The desire for the transcendent experience is a pandemic infection.
The desire for the transcendent experience is a pandemic infection.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton
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Well, thank goodness not all bacteria are bad. lol
In Hogfather, by Terry Pratchett, Death has to save the Hogfather (Discworld's equivalent of Santa Clause). There are some interesting quotes from that story. Here's a couple good ones:
Here's another. My favorite:
In Hogfather, by Terry Pratchett, Death has to save the Hogfather (Discworld's equivalent of Santa Clause). There are some interesting quotes from that story. Here's a couple good ones:
Death speaks in all caps. lol.“All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."
REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.
"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"
YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.
"So we can believe the big ones?"
YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.
"They're not the same at all!"
YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.
"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—"
MY POINT EXACTLY.”
Here's another. My favorite:
“WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF YOU HADN'T SAVED HIM?
"Yes! The sun would have risen just the same, yes?"
NO
"Oh, come on. You can't expect me to believe that. It's an astronomical fact."
THE SUN WOULD NOT HAVE RISEN.
"Really? Then what would have happened, pray?"
A MERE BALL OF FLAMING GAS WOULD HAVE ILLUMINATED THE WORLD.”
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas
Clemsy,
I don't know how to respond to these quotes. they are truly depressing for me. I feel sorry for someone, like these people, who have never had a life changing experience.
In my opinion a person who has lived a full life has bumped into "God" several times, and is no longer trapped in this depressing intellectual prison.
I don't know how to respond to these quotes. they are truly depressing for me. I feel sorry for someone, like these people, who have never had a life changing experience.
In my opinion a person who has lived a full life has bumped into "God" several times, and is no longer trapped in this depressing intellectual prison.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton