Mythology and Religion: In The News

What needs do mythology and religion serve in today's world and in ancient times? Here we discuss the relationship between mythology, religion and science from mythological, religious and philosophical viewpoints.

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Dionysus
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Post by Dionysus »

James I was being a bit over dramatic. I really did miss this series of conversations, tho'. My journey as a theatre artist continues to surprise and engage. My exploration of the human condition continues unabated. Every day continues to be an exercise in wakefulness.

See it. Embrace it. It is you. Tat tvam asi.

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Post by JamesN. »

Dionysus wrote:James I was being a bit over dramatic. I really did miss this series of conversations, tho'. My journey as a theatre artist continues to surprise and engage. My exploration of the human condition continues unabated. Every day continues to be an exercise in wakefulness.

See it. Embrace it. It is you. Tat tvam asi.
I have a very good friend of mine I have reconnected with these last few years who is part of a group that gets together once a month to reminisce about the old days. She is an actress who works pretty regularly with a lot of the local theater groups. I've gone to see her perform and some of the things many of these groups are doing are right in line with exploring many of the contemporary issues affecting modern life. Very cool material that really makes one think. It would seem to me this engages a kind of "spiritual muse" if that makes sense. (Not being an actor you of course would know much more about this than I would so I hope you'll forgive my rather pitiful attempt at description.) 8)
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

Dionysus
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Post by Dionysus »

Please, James. I respect your response to your friend's efforts in following her bliss.

I have just recently teamed up with a woman who publishes an art-zine here (mostly fine arts - sculpture painting, various media). Our mutual interest lies in theatre and the exploration of the human condition. We had our first read-through with the full cast (3) on Saturday. The exploration began quickly and the rehearsal was gold - empathic and up-lifting weeping and hugging. One wishes we could always find such material. Well, that's impossible. What we have now is amazing - and it has only just begun.

This is our bliss.

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Post by JamesN. »

Dionysus wrote:Please, James. I respect your response to your friend's efforts in following her bliss.

I have just recently teamed up with a woman who publishes an art-zine here (mostly fine arts - sculpture painting, various media). Our mutual interest lies in theatre and the exploration of the human condition. We had our first read-through with the full cast (3) on Saturday. The exploration began quickly and the rehearsal was gold - empathic and up-lifting weeping and hugging. One wishes we could always find such material. Well, that's impossible. What we have now is amazing - and it has only just begun.

This is our bliss.

That's wonderful Dionysus; I wish you much success with your journey! Thanks for sharing it!
8)
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

Roncooper
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Post by Roncooper »

Dionysus wrote:
As a Buddhist Atheist, I suggest reading Stephen Batchelor's, Confession of a Buddhist Atheist. It's a good read.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I tried reading Batchelor but didn't enjoy it. These things are so subjective, but it seemed to me that he was bitter and disillusioned because he failed to have a Buddha-like profound spiritual experience. I think these experiences are very rare like winning the lottery. Anyway that was my subjective take.

As we were discussing earlier, just as prayer and faith can have practical uses so can meditation. Anyone can use cool meditation practices for their benefit, but I think there is a lot more to the path of consciousness.

The "Thou art that" experience where one experiences unity with Brahman and realizes that physical reality is Maya has profound implications. IMHO it is the cornerstone of all mystical experience. But perhaps this topic is best left for monks.

I think meditation is like mathematics, a person can do math without being a mathematician.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton

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Post by Dionysus »

Ron, I'm not sure where you got the idea that Batchelor was bitter and disillusioned. I think that he simply outgrew the Delai Lama, and the Buddhism that relies on karma and reincarnation. But, to each his own.

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Post by Roncooper »

Dionysus,

It seemed to me that Batchelor was trying to rewrite the story of Buddhism to suit his personal experience. I guess I'm wrong, but that is what I got out of it.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton

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Post by Clemsy »

I find the term "Buddhist Atheist" a bit of a conundrum. Isn't Buddhism, in its purest sense, neutral on the question of "god." Isn't god irrelevant?
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

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Post by JamesN. »

I started to post this yesterday and took it down because I was uncertain if it was relevant. (Now I'm not so sure.) I'm not as well versed in many of the nuances of Buddhism as some the rest of the folk on these forums; so what do you guys think?
"God is an intelligible sphere whose center is everywhere and circumference nowhere." So we are told in a little twelfth-century book known as "The Book of the Twenty-four Philosophers". Each of us -- whoever and wherever he may be -- is then the center, and within him, whether he knows it or not, is that Mind at Large, the laws of which are the laws not only of all minds but of all space as well.

Joseph Campbell
Myths to LIve By

I came across this definition on the homepage that I seem to remember Joseph quoting in: "The Power Of Myth". It seems to me much more of a Buddhist approach to a definition of God than the "Personality" often depicted by Muslim-Judeo-Christian one. Although I must admit I'm not familiar with "The Book of the Twenty-four Philosophers" he mentions I thought this link might be of interest.


http://themathesontrust.org/papers/meta ... XIV-A4.pdf



(Anyone else familiar with this particular book?)
:?

(This copy of the book is basically a quick list of definition sentences concerning "What Is God". Here is the Introduction giving more background. ):
Introduction
The Liber is a medieval work, thought by some to have been composed in the 4th
century AD. It is extant in its current Latin form in manuscripts from as early as
the 12th century, usually in collections of philosophical or Hermetic miscellanea. It
consists of twenty-four definitions of God, which were published with or without
accompanying commentary for centuries. This introduction and this “minimal”
edition for free digital distribution are a prelude to our forthcoming publication
of a book including the commentary and all the relevant bibliographical references.
In order to benefit from the following pages, it is important to remember the
meaning of the word “philosopher” in the Middle Ages. As has been thoroughly
documented by Pierre Hadot, Algis Uždavinys and others, “philosophy” was always
more a way of life and a prolonged rite of rebirth than just one among a variety
of scholarly disciplines. It was simply true to its name, a “love of wisdom”,
encompassing every discipline in a vital and transformative pursuit. In its mental
training, it took the mind, along with the other human faculties, to its natural limits,
striving for a wider and deeper intellectual “beyond”.
It is also important to remember that in former times numbers always meant
more than just quantities. In our case, twenty-four is an image of totality, a number
that encompasses all possible directions, tendencies, principles, being the number of
letters in the Greek alphabet, of the hours of day and night, and as double of twelve
related to the Zodiac circle and time cycles in general.
A “book of twenty-four philosophers” thus conjures up the sum of fully
authorised views on a given topic. Such a title is a serious promise, it means
something very much in earnest, and in order to do justice to it, we need to give
time to its reading.
Stripped of any commentary as we publish them here, these sentences which
influenced the likes of Dante, Meister Eckhart, Giordano Bruno and Leibniz, are
meant to be like a knocking at the door, each one of them a compassionate attempt
to wake us up from our everyday slumber.

Juan Acevedo
for The Matheson Trust
Cambridge, 21st June, 2015

(And the Prologue.):

Prologue
Upon a gathering of twenty-four philosophers, only one question remained for them
to answer: what is God?
They then agreed to have a recess, in order for each of them to come up with a
definition in his own terms, to gain some certainty from their individual definitions
and thus be able to make a consensual assertion about God.

(If interested the definitions comprising just "24" separate sentences provided in the above link are a quick read.) :wink:
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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Post by Dionysus »

Hi Clemsy! I figured I'd respond to you and hope that James will forgive me, as I haven't read his post yet.

Buddhism, although not recognizing a god, per se, doesn't refer to itself as an atheistic belief system. However, the basic belief in world Buddhism of karma and reincarnation based on that karmic status, implies that something is "keeping score".

A Buddhist Atheist believes that the Buddha, who never came out with a definition of god, came as a healer for mankind, who he perceived as being sick and thus presented us with The Four Noble Truths, accepts that boon, and truly believes that no one is "keeping score. Ask a standard, old, run-of -the-mill Buddhist if someone who denies karma and reincarnation is a Buddhist and my guess is that (s)he would say, "no." Thus we have the "Western" Buddhist Atheist.

(My take.)

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Post by Dionysus »

James your Campbell quote:


"God is an intelligible sphere whose center is everywhere and circumference nowhere." So we are told in a little twelfth-century book known as "The Book of the Twenty-four Philosophers". Each of us -- whoever and wherever he may be -- is then the center, and within him, whether he knows it or not, is that Mind at Large, the laws of which are the laws not only of all minds but of all space as well."

I prefer the title, also used by Campbell, "the formless form beyond all forms", It remains a descriptor beyond human comprehension, while side-stepping the "problem" of "Mind" and the descriptor of "Laws" for a creature of chaos (the universe).

Thanks for the post regarding the "little book". Sounds like it would be worth spending some time with.

Of course, it is completely Western in its approach. Personalized in respect to the relationship described between God (the dude) and Man (the other dude - no dudette, I guess). I do like the closing where it describes the becoming awakened, as the Buddha was described as the awakened one and being awake to your every day existence is a way to see yourself in relation to all things around you. Or something like that.

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Post by JamesN. »

Dionysus:
Hi Clemsy! I figured I'd respond to you and hope that James will forgive me, as I haven't read his post yet.
Dionysus of course that is fine for it was I who accidentally interrupted you and Clemsy. (Sorry about that.) Please continue on and I'll check back in later.


Cheers
:)


_____________________________________________________________________



Addendum: ( Whoops; just caught your post.) :o

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I wasn't sure how your take would be on any of that. BTW; are you familiar with Joseph's work on Heinrich Zimmer? I am not so I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on him? (Also you may know that Joe was a good friend of the great Zen Master: D.T. Suzuki.) And also that Zimmer and Joseph were both friends of Carl Jung as well. (When you think of the circles he was moving in with writers like John Steinbeck and Allen Watts, and musical composer John Cage to name but a few it kind of boggles the mind what some of the conversations must have been like.) The biography: "Fire In The Mind" of course chronicles some of this; but still to be there as a "fly-on-the-wall" must have been amazing.

(Here is a section of text I came across from "Fire In The Mind" that reveals much of these goings on from that period. (Just staggering!):

https://books.google.com/books?id=_WpnA ... ll&f=false


Dionysus:
as the Buddha was described as the awakened one and being awake to your every day existence is a way to see yourself in relation to all things around you.



( Very nicely put.)


Cheers
:)
Last edited by JamesN. on Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Roncooper »

Dionysus,

I would like to apologize if I seemed overly critical. I am going through some rough times and it has made me too intense.

As to the question of God. I am fixated on Jung's functions so I see God like this.

For the willful God is Authority. For Buddhists and Adviata Hindus God is consciousness. For the intellect God is the teacher. For the emotional individual God is love, and for the artist God is beauty, inspiration and the co-creator.
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. -Isaac Newton

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Post by JamesN. »

Roncooper wrote:Dionysus,

I would like to apologize if I seemed overly critical. I am going through some rough times and it has made me too intense.

As to the question of God. I am fixated on Jung's functions so I see God like this.

For the willful God is Authority. For Buddhists and Adviata Hindus God is consciousness. For the intellect God is the teacher. For the emotional individual God is love, and for the artist God is beauty, inspiration and the co-creator.

Ron. Pardon my intrusion to your post to Dionysus. I am so sorry to hear you are experiencing difficulties right now and hope whatever they are soon passes. Your last quote is beautiful.

All the best my friend.
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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Post by Dionysus »

Ron, We have no issue, here. We're talkin' 'bout God or gods or somethin', or whatever that means. Hard to find the right words, sometimes. -- d.

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