Jesus in India?

What needs do mythology and religion serve in today's world and in ancient times? Here we discuss the relationship between mythology, religion and science from mythological, religious and philosophical viewpoints.

Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

Do you think Jesus may have spent his missing years in India?

Yes!
11
38%
No!
5
17%
Maybe!
7
24%
Interesting, but unimportant!
6
21%
 
Total votes: 29

Clemsy
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Jesus in India?

Post by Clemsy »

New documentary coming to the Sundance channel soon: Jesus in India. Looks like Elaine Pagels and the Dalai Lama were interviewed for the film.

Cheers,
Clemsy
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

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Post by Vissi »

Clemsy, thank you for the heads up on the documentary which I will look forward to viewing. In voting in the poll, I had a hard time deciding between "yes" and "interesting but unimportant." As we've discussed previously in threads related to "the missing years" of Jesus's life, there are certainly transcendentalist qualities evident in teachings attributed to him. I guess I'm still ruminating on (from a Campbellian perspective), if pinning a name on the origins of the influences is a dissection that could be illuminating or whether such dissections lead to more fodder for concretization.

Help set 350, Peace Now,
Dixie

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Post by Clemsy »

I guess I'm still ruminating on (from a Campbellian perspective), if pinning a name on the origins of the influences is a dissection that could be illuminating or whether such dissections lead to more fodder for concretization.
That is the point, as far as I'm concerned. I must issue a disclaimer here and say that I've had this discussion with the person who scored the documentary... and who also just happens to be my brother (Check out the sample tracks!). My attitude is, well, this is academically interesting, however will also tweak more than a few noses of those who have little tolerance for folks messing with "their Jesus."

Especially connecting him with a pagan influence. Oh dear!

Another issue I have is, as campbell points out here and there, the tendency of cultures to assume a longer history and larger status than the archeological record indicates. There is a romanticized notion of India being the home and origin of all things wise and the earliest seat of civilization. Does this play in the notion of Jesus taking it on the road to the remote Himalyas for schooling? No little journey for the son of a Jewish carpenter!

Can't wait to see the doc, but my impression is that he, or anyone else for that matter, wouldn't have had to travel so far. He lived at a time when ideas were pouring east, south, north and, especially in this case, west, thanks to Alexander's stirring up of things.

Cheers,
Clemsy
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

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Post by A J »

I see that my "maybe" vote is the one most selected. I wonder if that's due to insight or to copping out. :?

I guess my own feeling would be that there are universal ideas that have been observed by several enlightened teachers, rather than having all originated from one source.

But the program sounds intriguing. Thanks for the "heads-up."

AJ
"Sacred space and sacred time and something joyous to do is all we need. Almost anything then becomes a continuous and increasing joy."

A Joseph Campbell Companion: Reflections on the Art of Living

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Post by boringguy »

Hi Clemsy,

Maybe not unimportant, maybe only relatively important. As in the move I made in a Chess game, three moves ago, is only relatively important. Of absolute importance, is the move I'm about to make. :)



bg
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as you be see

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Post by Vissi »

Clemsy, AJ, bg, All,
Clemsy wrote:
That is the point, as far as I'm concerned. I must issue a disclaimer here and say that I've had this discussion with the person who scored the documentary... and who also just happens to be my brother (Check out the sample tracks!). My attitude is, well, this is academically interesting, however will also tweak more than a few noses of those who have little tolerance for folks messing with "their Jesus."

Especially connecting him with a pagan influence. Oh dear!
Please pass along congratulations to Brian, the sample tracks are fine work. For me, personally, identifying transcendent aspects of any wisdom tradition only helps ecumenicality in the sense that such markers of conceptual, unitive consciousness point past any one system and toward the mystical dimension that suggests all are the raiment of elementary ideas.


Clemsy also wrote:
Another issue I have is, as campbell points out here and there, the tendency of cultures to assume a longer history and larger status than the archeological record indicates. There is a romanticized notion of India being the home and origin of all things wise and the earliest seat of civilization. Does this play in the notion of Jesus taking it on the road to the remote Himalyas for schooling? No little journey for the son of a Jewish carpenter!
It's an interesting point that cultures, and spiritual traditions as well, attempt to establish a spiritual continuum. For me, it's also the point where new wisdom traditions can become mired in huge paradoxes. For example, the use in the Christian bible of the books of the Judaic tradition as predictive of the advent (only a small pun intended) of Christianity thereby legitimizing Jesus's messages as the fulfillment of certain prophecies. Still, the tone and strictures of the Judaic foundation are not supportive, rather, I find them in opposition to many of the central tenets of Christianity --- in the older tradition, God approves vengeful warfare while Jesus exhorts his followers to love their enemies, etc. But...I suppose one could draw the inference that the newer idea somehow clarifies the older, supercedes the older concepts; people have changed so understandings of God change with them. I don't know, I think I'm reaching here.

While somewhat comparable, the same instance of borrowing from Hinduism, Jainism, and Indian Buddhism as the underpinnings of Tibetan Buddhism tends to be more seamless but likewise a bit problematic. These borrowings tend to link the Tibetan tradition to Shakyamuni Buddha's own time but the overlay of mythos, in some senses does (to me at least) challenge the clarity of some concepts.

Again taking the Tibetan tradition, there is mythological evidence --- such as the tales of Atisha bringing Buddhist teachings to Tibet --- to suggest that spiritual teachers during that period often traveled far and wide at the behest of rulers with a spiritual bent.

Is information set as to the broadcast dates for the documentary? Thanks again, Clemsy, for the mention. I'll look forward to seeing the work.

Help set 350, Peace Now,
Dixie

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Post by Clemsy »

FYI: Sundance Channel Slates Christmas Week Premiere for Thought-Provoking Documentary About Life of Jesus Christ

NEW YORK, Dec. 10 /PRNewswire/ -- Sundance Channel has scheduled a Christmas week premiere for Paul Davids' documentary Jesus in India, which examines controversial theories and legends that place a traveling Jesus Christ in India. Written, directed and produced by Davids, the film will debut as part of the Channel's regular Monday DOCday programming on Monday, December 22nd at 9:00pm et/pt.
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

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Post by Neoplato »

I know that on one of the 'Mythos" segments, Joe points out that somewhere in the period of 300 to 200 BC Buddhists missionaries come to the middle east. Could this have left an influence on Jesus? Also, the library of Alexandria was still standing at the time of Jesus. Could he have studied there? Also, are the words of Christ the same as the Buddha? Is this all the same as Neoplatonism?

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Post by Waka »

HEYY im back.

I was watching Cnn a few days ago and they talked about Deepak Chopra's new book about Jesus. It too follows what Jesus could have done in the lost years. I found it really interesting that St. Thomas came to India in the first century. In fact if we can get some input form Nandu, we can talk about Christianity in India. They say that St, Thomas landed in Kerala. But to get back to Chopras book I found a link on Time about it.


http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0 ... 71,00.html
Better than a thousand useless words is one word that gives peace.- Buddha<br>Let yourself be free. :-)

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Post by Andromeda »

Hmmm... recently I was reminded (in another conversation topic here) of a book I've been trying to read... "1421:The year China discovered America". ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1421:_The_ ... ed_America )

As i read that book I was struck by the discussion over the origin and completeness of European maps and the plausible idea that the maps used by Columbus were (in effect) plagarisms of the maps charted by the Chinese explorers years previously.

The fact that Columbus may have utilized possibly plagarized information and that such an origin was concealed for whatever reason may be unimportant, but...

... if one were to use that supposition as a starting point to investigate where the Chinese got their original information prior to even sending out their first fleet... and in the book i'm trying to read there is mention of fleet basing in India of Chinese exploratory fleets... one might suppose that there was contact between China and many other places in the world via India much earlier than has been discovered or admitted... for whatever reasons...

... and one might suppose that when Jesus said he had many other flocks to tend (or something to that effect, sorry i don't remember the exact text) ... do you suppose he knew even then of other societies in the world... such as india?

.. and if Jesus knew of other societies andor cultures... and did not speak out against them and condemn them, as I'm sure he would have if he felt them to be inappropriate in any way... why should anyone else?

Perhaps Jesus may have even visited China... or Ireland...
Envision a world as it should be. What we envision is what we create in the future.

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Post by Clemsy »

Show's on at 9:00 tonight Eastern on the Sundance Channel!
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

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Post by Andromeda »

Clemsy wrote:Show's on at 9:00 tonight Eastern on the Sundance Channel!
First I heard of the sundance channel, and too late to organize it for that show. Hopefully it will be more widely viewed and I'll get a chance to watch that. What did you thionk of it, Clemsy?

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Post by Clemsy »

Hi Andromeda!

I'll get into more detail on the show itself in the next few days. Right now we're doing the Christmas eve scramble getting the house ready for family and friends.

I was very impressed with my brother's score. I've always known him to be a talented songwriter and musician, but his work on this film is very polished and hopefully will get him more work.

Cheers,
Clemsy
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

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Post by freespiritintraining »

hi Andromeda; we meet again; and hi Clemsy:

Is this what you guys are referring to? I guess they released the orders after the broadcast. . . . as I haven't sen the program, don't ruin it for me. I am lookingforward to watching it. If this is what you are referring to; as startling as it may be; it really is very old information. Anyway, because it is so funny, I wanted to share this with you:

Brian Leslie Engler <vanbengler>
tofilmbaby@filmbaby.com

dateMon, Dec 29, 2008 at 12:46 PM
subjectRe: Film Baby: Your film is on the way!
mailed-bygmail.com

hide details 12:46 PM (7 hours ago) Reply


Hi Jamie,

thank you: I know it's going to be good; but if it is only half as good as the laugh I am enjoying I am sure it will be excellent.

(still laughing)

thanks again,

-Brian


- Hide quoted text -
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 11:55 AM, <filmbaby> wrote:

Hi Brian,

Hooray! I am pleased to announce that your order has been processed and is now complete.


The following 3 DVDs shipped today:
1 copy of JESUS IN INDIA DVD
1 copy of JESUS IN INDIA: KING OF WISDOM - THE MAKING OF THE FILM & NEW FINDINGS ON JESUS' LOST YEARS (BOOK)
1 copy of KING OF TRAVELERS: JESUS' LOST YEARS IN INDIA (BOOK)


Please rest assured that we've taken great care in the shipping of your DVD.

We hold true to an ancient DVD shipping tradition passed down for over 5000 years. This very intensive practice is only achieved after years of training, meditation, purity of mind, and deep breathing exercises.

After a rigorous 17 step process of verifying the authenticity of your DVD, we donned silk gloves and placed it into a sacred box made of magic and lined with Unicorn fur, tied the box with a strand of Gypsy hair, and wrapped the whole thing in a snazzy looking faux gold leaf paper, with elm leaf inlay from Costco. Unfortunately, by the time it gets to you, all of that fancy stuff will likely have been picked clean by the greedy postal service employees. Please don't be surprised to see just a plain cardboard box.

We hope you enjoy your films and that you'll visit Film Baby again soon to browse all the great independently created entertainment!

Jamie Chvotkin, President
Film Baby

Hello JCF friend, I am still laughing . . . have I got "prophet's bliss" ?

With all the shit that I have been disturbing up here in Canada recently the more and more I am convinced that my life and my story is some kind of fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.

I don't want to spam, but if you are interested you can look up my website from my profile.

I would appreciate any expert analysis of this matter and I respectfully reserve the right to repudiate any said expert in writing from what I have already done.

I would most respectfully thank and will respond to any one who wishes to respond.

-Brian Leslie Engler

--
May "God" bless you and those you love and care for. It does anyway, whether I/you/we like it or not . . . .
May God Bless you And Those you Love And Care For: It does Anyway: Whether you Like it or Not.

Clemsy
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Post by Clemsy »

Hello all...

Waka, I to found it quite interesting that Thomas apparently did end his days in India.. at least according to the story. Apparently his tomb is there along with a large Christian population.

Andromeda, the doc was fairly well done, although, I felt a bit too long. I may have to watch it again as I found myself a bit confused. The show was primarily advertised as about Jesus' 'missing years.' However, a lot of the story centered on the Muslim belief that Christ survived the crucifixion, preached for a bit, then left for India where he died.

There is a tomb that is thought to be his... but is in an Islamic area in Kashmir, if I recall correctly. It is an old tomb, but the locals won't allow any study, especially in the post 9/11 climate. (Actually, I was a bit uncomfortable with this part, i.e. the 'Muslims are in the way.' sort of thing.)

As I stated above, I find the whole idea rather academic. The stories are interesting, and probably illustrate myth at work, no? Where a myth resonates, it sticks and becomes part of the local narrative. Being of the Campbellian persuasion, I find the argument about nailing it down historically counter productive.

The primary researcher does seem objective and genuinely interested in the story. I was also impressed that the producer managed to get an interview with Elaine Pagels, a well known religious historian out of Princeton. She said outright that she doesn't believe the historicity of the stories.

Basically, all the evidence is of the " we heard if from a friend of a friend who was allowed to see what either doesn't exist any more or isn't available to anyone else for any number of reasons" sort of thing.

As usual for such matters... it comes down to faith.

Yes FreeSpirit, I noticed your other post and wondered if you've ordered the same video, linked earlier in this thread.

Cheers,
Clemsy
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

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