Buddhism - first WORLD religion?

What needs do mythology and religion serve in today's world and in ancient times? Here we discuss the relationship between mythology, religion and science from mythological, religious and philosophical viewpoints.

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JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Jon and ScottDrums;

How do I describe how deeply touched and moved I am by the heartfelt kindness in your remarks. Moments like these in life are some of the most rare and special gifts one can receive if fortunate enough to recognize them.

Jon not so very long ago I was in agony fumbling in my clumsy and uninformed technical skill of painfully long to read posts; trying desparately to express what had been locked inside for a lifetime. In your compassion; ( and I'm sure reading frustation ); you reached across to someone you did not know and offered advice that set them free.

I do not know of fate of circumstance or coincidence that brought this about; but only gratitude for it's results. It has been a long journey to find myself and only now am I finally able to express my passage.

ScottDrums I have been continually concerned about steering off target in my occasional tendency to overindulge a philosophical urge; but I am indeed deeply gratified if I in some small way have provided any assistance.

I will leave to any of the much more informed fellow associates direction on Buddist thought but I will add a couple of suggestions that I think are worthy of note. 1.) Joseph Campbells' work is very expansive in many areas, and he had a thorough working knowledge of Buddism as well as most all of the great world religions. Your instincts brought you here. Take your time and drink deep for there is much to explore. The people here are informed and helpful and also human. The forums cover quite a large range of subject matter as I'm sure you have noticed; and the other resources can be really useful.

2.) Use your instincts. A quote Joseph used in reference to this was: " It is in you; go and find it. " And last if I may be permitted in my own humble path: " Enjoy the Journey ." ( Savor every feature; every act; every moment; and don't forget to laugh. )

Thank you both for such a treasured moment. :D
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

jonsjourney
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Post by jonsjourney »

Jon. Do you know any more specifics of the thought that one is born a Hindu, whereas one chooses to be Buddhist. -Scott
Well, Scott, at the risk of sounding repetitive, all I can say is that although I suppose one could technically "become" a Hindu, just as one could choose Judaism, the basic fact is that these two are generally not considered "chosen" faiths.

Here is the wiki on Hinduism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu#Definition

I did note that there is some indication of this being chosen and that this page included Buddhism under the umbrella of Hinduism, but I think that may be a confusing idea.

Now...I am no expert, but what I understand is that Buddhism and Christianity share at least one important aspect. That aspect is that they emerged as a reaction against an already established religious system. Christianity was a reaction to the dogma of Judaism and Buddhism was a reaction to the dogma of the Vedic Brahmanism of India in the 5th and 6th centuries BCE. If I understand correctly, Buddhism was NOT a reaction to Hinduism, but there are many elements of the old Brahmanistic traditions in Hinduism.

Buddhism is generally understood here in the West as more of a philosophy than a religion. In places where Tibetan Buddhism is practiced it is clearly more of a religious approach, but the idea of a single creator god is still not accepted, so it gets a bit fuzzy as to what exactly makes a religion a religion. Is it a prerequisite to have a creator? In my view, no, but that is my view. I think we can make a religion out of anything, including the mythologizing of history like we do here in the USA...creating a bit of an untouchable narrative that locks a particular view in place in order to create some kind of cohesive purpose for the establishment of a nation. I will not go further into this and all the problems associated with it at this point.

The wiki on Buddhism is pretty huge, but here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism#History

Like most religions and philosophies, sometimes getting to the root is nearly impossible. It becomes clouded in myth (both the good and bad kind) and the dust of history covers much of the truth.

If you want to pick up a relatively inexpensive book that will help with defining some of these religious views, I recommend Huston Smith's The World's Religions or John Bowker's Oxford Dictionary of World Religions. Both of these resources are frequently used in Comparative Religious Thought courses at universities here in the States, I have both and refer to them quite often, which I will do again and see if I can hash this out a bit better if necessary. They are often easily purchased very inexpensively on the web.

Of course, none of that may be necessary! It sounds to me as if you have found your own way to a sort of Buddhist understanding (eg. mindfulness) in your art. Mindfulness has become an aspect of Buddhism (it is part of the Noble Eightfold Path) that has been increasingly embraced here in the west, both in the private sector and in Psychology. Of course, ultimately Buddhism is ALL psychology, with the ultimate goal of extinguishing the psychology of "self".

I can recommend one particular book on mindfulness, as well. Thich Nhat Hanh's book The Miracle of Mindfulness is an absolute gem...it is very short and extremely well written, particularly for a Westerner who is new to Buddhism.

I believe that Mytle provided the specific quote by Campbell, and I do not have anything at my fingertips right now as I am reading some other stuff at this moment. But if I come across some more Campbell-specific information, I will be sure to share it with you.

Namaste!
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." -Douglas Adams

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Jon,

If I may be permitted to compliment what you are recommending: ( Like a viewer looking through a microscope to find the identity of a genesis or using a telescope to search into the farthest reaches of a unfathomable depth ); this is precisely the kind of distintion clarifing I was hoping would result. Just Excellent !

( ScottDrums; A passing suggestion. ) In pages 201 through 203 of Diane Osbons - " Reflections on the Art of Living " A Joseph Campbell Companion " - there is a wonderful reference to his thoughts on the clarity between the small ferryboat of monk Buddism and the Great Ferryboat of Mahayana tradition of Buddism., where we realize all things are Budda things and then the deeper distintions made such as " no self " doctrine ; the relevance of and between the two and so on into the larger context. As I said earlier this is not an area that I feel I have expertise in; but something that was helpful to me. ( Incidently this is one of my favorite books and has been indespensible in my personal journey. If I also may be permitted; this text and others are availible in various formats at the Foundation bookstore; and if you decide to purchase would greatly benefit in the non-profit efforts of the continuation of this ongoing work here. )

Great Post Jon ! 8)
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

jonsjourney
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Post by jonsjourney »

James...

I was thinking of that metaphor that Joe used so often this morning as I thought about this thread. At the end of the ride, there is no ferry boat, no water that was crossed, no point of departure...no self. I love it. Thanks for bringing that up. 8)
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." -Douglas Adams

ScottDrums
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Post by ScottDrums »

Jon,

Thanks for the very great post.

I have a copy of 'The Miracle of Mindfulness' and I agree it's a wonderful book. I've read a lot by Thich Nhat Hanh, I really enjoy his direct approach. I got the urge again to pull it out and re-read it now, thanks! I will definetly check out the books on World religions, thanks for the direction on that.

My interest in the matter I think has a lot to do with wanting to have a greater understanding for some better perspective. The best lessons I've learned for myself I feel I personally got at the temple in real life experiences there, not from any book. It's amazing to me how many books are written about ideas that are beyond words. Having access to others a little further down the path is priceless. My real interest in comparative religion for me is understanding how the religions relate to each other. My brother in law and sister are fundamentalist Christian, my mother is a psychic medium, and my best friend is an atheist. The more I know to be strong for them and myself the better. I seem to unwillingly get caught up in nonsense all the time. I am not one to ever push my ideas onto others, but as much as i try to avoid it, i get pulled in. A little knowledge can go a long way sometimes to diffuse a mess. That, and I find it super interesting.

James,

I love Campell's telling of the difference between Theravada Buddhism and Mahayana Buddhsim. I also own 'Reflections on the Art Of Living' and have read parts, very enjoyable. I will do my best to buy directly through the Campbell site to make sure I send the support through the proper channels.

Thanks all! You all have been very helpful!

Scott

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

ScottDrums,

After reading your kind reply it occured to me " The Mythic Image " might possibly be worth a look.

Good Journey To You. :)
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Myrtle wrote:Here's a Campbell quote from Thou Art That (pgs 61-62):
Christianity, as we understand, is one of the three world religions. The first was Buddhism, which began in the late sixth or early fifth century B.C...Such religions as Hinduism, Judaism, or Shinto are religions not of creed but of birth. These represent two entirely different orders of religion, for the former is credal and the latter is ethnic. - J. Campbell

I just came across this article about The Buddha's date of birth that may be of interest to this thread. It just boggles the mind to consider how old this place is and yet there are monks still active right there.


http://news.yahoo.com/hunch-led-stunnin ... 20436.html
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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