Is there such a thing as an absolute value??

What needs do mythology and religion serve in today's world and in ancient times? Here we discuss the relationship between mythology, religion and science from mythological, religious and philosophical viewpoints.

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Do we integrate certain values from transcendent sources?

Yes
4
36%
No
2
18%
We cannot know
5
45%
 
Total votes: 11

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

I saw this article and thought it might be worth taking a look at:


http://news.yahoo.com/anderson-cooper-k ... 44025.html


How we as individuals interpret what we see as reality might fit within this category of an " Absolute Value "; ( in this case the reporters point of view as presented to the viewer ). The thought processes revealed of an unfolding event happening in the moment; it's possible relevant impact on us as individuals; and the borderline between realities we inhabit as we process and navigate our lives; and how we as individuals are caught within it's interplay.

James Joyce was quoted by Joe as saying: " History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake ". But on the other end of the proposition might be Joseph's suggestion of: " participation in a wonder ". ( At any rate I thought the article and this idea of " interface " might be something to consider. ) :idea:
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

Roncooper
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Post by Roncooper »

James,

I finished listening to the first two "The Wisdom of Joseph Campbell" CDs,. He points out very clearly the need for a new world mythology. He also said that the process of developing a new mythology may take 200 years or so. That gives me comfort that it might still happen.

If we say the great change occurred when Pres. Johnson signed the Equal Rights Act in 1964 then the new mythology coalesces around 2164. I guess I must be content with that.

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Hey Ron. I really like these Michael Toms materials and think they are really helpful in getting at Joe's themes from another vantage point.

Indeed as you point out taken within this context the need for a new mythology that is evolving I think is an idea that most folks who are familiar with this aspect of what Joseph Campbell was saying could find common ground. But in the meantime I think the challenge for most of us is getting a handle on harmonizing and integrating our own lives within the current condition with which we now find ourselves occupying.

I have been going back and forth between the CD's and: ( " An Open life - Joseph Campbell in Conversation with Michael Toms " ); which could be seen as sort of a companion since it contains certain selections of his conversations in written text; ( which for me ); has been very helpful in getting at some of what I think are Joseph's core insights. In the first Chapter: " Myth As Metaphor "; Joe points out: " You see, myths do not come from a concept system; they come from a life system; they come out of a deeper center. We must not confuse mythology with ideology. " ( For me I think this is where part of the problem resides. )

Later in the chapter he illustrates this: " We are mentally oriented in our period, so we always think it's a quest for interpretations. The theory that myths were attempts to answer questions about meaning was very popular at the end of the last century, and at the beginning of this one; but we now realize that these are great poems and that they don't represent answers but are attempts to express insights. " He goes on to point out the difference between the emphasis on interpretation of the mythological metaphor or image as relating to historical fact instead of as a reference towards spiritual realization; and how the similarities of cross-cultural interpretations of the same symbolic themes such as the " Virgin Birth " occurred in other mythologies. Then this chapter gets into the idea of " The Call " to which Joseph points out: " That's the essence of mythology "; which would be: ( The Hero; the quest; the message or boon; or what you would call " The Monomyth " and how one might approach this such as: " the life of the village compound " or " the sense of a larger context " such as in the global one you are illustrating ). But I think a key difference he makes within this construct is the separation between a " spiritual insight " and an " interpretation of meaning ". He makes a clear distinction about this confusion when he says: " To me all mythologies are provinces of one great system of feeling. I think of the mythological image as an energy-evoking sign that hits you below the thinking system. Then words can be found to interpret the mythic image: the image of the structure. Essentially, mythologies are enormous poems that are renderings of insights, giving some sense of the marvel, the miracle and wonder of life. "

Now as to where we are now I would say we are in the midst of a kind of global metamorphosis or process of assimilation within the interplay between these different cultural mythologies and societies. ( Just considering the huge impact of the internet alone would to me be one manifestation of this. ) And you and I along with everyone else must figure out how to navigate our individual journey's or paths within the freefall of this reality we now find ourselves in. For me Joseph Campbell left some clues which he saw as keys to open the doorway over a new threshold. But it is our challenge to find our own individual path to get there. ( As for myself I struggle all the time ); but as has been very kindly pointed out to me " it is within the process itself that the messages reside "; and if we can all help each other along the way that seems to be a pretty cool thing to do. ( That is why I think that these forums are so important. ) 8)


Namaste :)


Addendum: I might add I think this aspect of Joseph Campbell's interpretation; ( at least as I understand it ); could also fit within the main concept of this thread concerning an " Absolute Value ". :idea:
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

Roncooper
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Post by Roncooper »

Namaste,

I have an idea for an absolute value. How about self reliance?

Roncooper
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Post by Roncooper »

James,

Thank you for the post. You write very well.

My fantasy is to imagine;. what it means to be a world person? What are the rules for a world person?

Such a person would need to honor the diversity of human life without resorting to anything goes, relativism.

Campbell says that all religions are the same, but I would add that they have a different emphasis. This, I think, is the key to relating to people who are very different from you. What is their focus? Are they willful, or intellectual, or do they follow their hearts? Are they creative types, or perhaps Buddhist types. Where is the common ground?

I agree that myths communicate directly to all of these dimensions. They can talk to your heart, or your artistic eye, or your consciousness, without intellectual reflection. But there are also myths for the intellect and these need to be considered.

The world person must be reasonable.

Forgive me, I am rambling. I am not worried about my path. By grace, I started at the end. My goal is to help others by developing a common sense middle ground. I'm just not very good at it.

So, I will have faith that Campbell is a profit and that my dream will come true after I'm gone.

What was that other wonderful Campbell quote? Something like, " Life is a movie we go to after it starts. We try to figure out what is going on without asking too many questions, and we leave before it's over."

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Funny you should bring up the term " self-reliance " Ron. I just posted this quote from the Toms book on the " Following the Marga " thread yesterday:

Toms: " They filled the model "; Joseph: " They filled the model. But they're not doing much for using the way of helping us build our own lives. There very few models for life. I think the individual has to find his own model. I found mine ".

Toms: " Isn't it important to respect our own uniqueness? " Joseph: " I think that is the most important thing of all. That's why, as I said, you really can't follow a guru. You can't ask somebody to give ( The Reason ), but you can find one for yourself: you decide what the meaning of your life is to be. People talk about the meaning of life; there is no meaning of life - there are lots of meanings of different lives, and you must decide what you want your own to be ".
" Spot on " in that respect I'd say. :idea:


As to your second post that is very kind of you but Joe's words really clarify the meaning. But yes I agree and I think that was part of Joseph Campbell's message; the planet as " a world community " is the direction to look toward.
Not only because it is the right thing; but also because it may be the only way we as a planet may survive.

As to the relativism; ( if I am following your train of thought correctly ); I think Joseph is suggesting ( being open to change and adapting ) that is the key he is pointing out. The direction we seem to be heading as far as what Joseph mentions as I recall is to be envisioned as a " new paradigm "; and if the kinds of changes witnessed from the recent past is any indication in this regard that would seem to be the case. ( Although what that new paradigm is going to be I don't think anyone really knows but it could certainly be assumed that it will most likely be challenging. ) There is one inspiring thought he mentions in " The Power of Myth " that to me seems to sum up this idea in the best sense and that is he was asked about this time in which we are living to which he replied: " The greatest ever! "

And if I may offer this concerning your last addition to the post; I think that your thoughtful contributions add a great deal to these conversations; and like " the movie " we are all participating in perhaps it is that we all are sharing in this struggle and doing the best we can. I think that was also part of the message that Joseph was inferring as well.


Cheers :)
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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