Lecture I.1.3 - Symbolism and the Individual

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jufa
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Post by jufa »

For therefore is wherefore not. And if no for therefore I see that nothing is nothing in for as nothing is something. So then if I am not the thing that is, I am not the thing that’s not. But if when I am the thing that is I am the one who was but is not. So then it is I who is the that is not the one who is not the one who is the one that is all.

With all this said, you should have no trouble going being pointing and describptiveness of the I that you are, and tell us in exactness the meaning of the logic for yoiur existence.
Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - jufa
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jonsjourney
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Post by jonsjourney »

For therefore is wherefore not. And if no for therefore I see that nothing is nothing in for as nothing is something. So then if I am not the thing that is, I am not the thing that’s not. But if when I am the thing that is I am the one who was but is not. So then it is I who is the that is not the one who is not the one who is the one that is all.
ditto! :wink: (a little homage to Taggart in Blazing Saddles)

Jufa~
Your statements seem overly complicated to me, but I am probably not yet evolved to that level of intellect. In Mythos II, Joe does a wonderful job of describing the gross matter/subtle matter aspects of perception. So, I prefer to think of the subtle matter, which after all is what everything is ultimately comprised of (?), as being the energy which creates life and which nourishes life and which makes it possible for our neurons to 'electro-chemically' interact; allowing us to think about this stuff.

Kind of like the white 'stuff' in an oreo cookie. :D

Word are what we use to describe. What is being described is indescribable. The more words it takes to describe the indescribable, the further away from the described we get.

For some reason I am craving a glass of milk.

Just having some fun here. 8)
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." -Douglas Adams

Neoplato
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Post by Neoplato »

With all this said, you should have no trouble going being pointing and describptiveness of the I that you are, and tell us in exactness the meaning of the logic for yoiur existenc
.

Sure.

All I want is to willfully cooperate in the act of manifesting.
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.

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Post by jufa »

Man is mankind individualized. Individual man is all that is, and all that is is individual man. Man is the Christ of man. The question is is man just going to eat drink and be merry, or is man going to become the diagram of ascension? What lies beyond this biological Life, is that which brung this biological Life into Iself as the ever renewing, ever unfolding, expression of infinite Life, and that is INFINITE LIFE.

Biological Life is not infinite in the sense of what it is appearing as. Infinite Life dissolves all elements of that which is biological, and material, because all is infused within the rudiments of the infinity of THAT WHICH IS - THE SILENCE OF CREATION. Men can continue to eat, drank, and be merry, but they cannot move on, or be absorbed into the true body of "Christ in them the hope of glory" until they change the way they think, and believe they personally possess and interpret that which they have received of thought free.. Moving on is never going anywhere, it is expanding the infinity of Life which one is.

Man can stay an earth bound Spirit, and continue to live in the fears of holocaust with the thought interpretation this world demand from those whom are afraid to move on. This world mentality will only use the biological body of individual man until the time limit of it has expired, then it will throw man's biological body back into the snake pit of man's own vomit of thought interpretations.

Perhaps, since Joe is the one who thinks for you, you can tickle his toes and get him stirred up to so I can deal with him directly, and cut out the one who is

not yet evolved to that level of intellect.
Also just having a little fun here.

Please, in referring to statement I have posted herein, and you make reference to, note said statement, and tell why you do not understand, or at opposite to it. Will not responde to generalization from now on.
Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com

jufa
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Post by jufa »

Quote:
With all this said, you should have no trouble going being pointing and describptiveness of the I that you are, and tell us in exactness the meaning of the logic for yoiur existenc
.

Sure.

All I want is to willfully cooperate in the act of manifesting.
No wonder you sighed at the end of your first post. Prattling does not gives answers.
Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com

BiggieDe
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Post by BiggieDe »

In Mythos II, Joe does a wonderful job of describing the gross matter/subtle matter aspects of perception. So, I prefer to think of the subtle matter, which after all is what everything is ultimately comprised of (?),

. . . Word are what we use to describe. What is being described is indescribable. The more words it takes to describe the indescribable, the further away from the described we get.
Hi jonsjourney!

What you're saying here Jonsjourney, is key. As long as we realize that this whole attempt at describing the indescribable with words is ultimately impossible, we can then plug away with this word and that word and continue to strive. When anyone of us thinks they've got the answer or the right words or the best description, then we're in for a fall and are heading down the road to trouble.

That concept of "subtle matter" the way Joseph Campbell tells it, is wonderful and each one of us probably has a slightly different batch of words to describe what "subtle matter" means. :-) I think of "subtle matter" as what energizes things, or the unseen essence of things. I don't know? More words. But, the important thing is to be on our toes and to . . . look for the effects of concepts like "subtle matter." Think of it as casting a shadow? Maybe we can perceive evidence that it exists? Or maybe it's all just some "meme" we learned along the way? Anyway, I think Joseph Campbell emphasizes that the main thing to avoid is confusing the subtle with the gross.

How many cookies you got?

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Post by Clemsy »

All I want is to willfully cooperate in the act of manifesting.
You mean instead of being forced to? Not like Someone is holding a gun to our heads. It may feel like it, but in reality, and if you turn around really quickly, you just might, out of the corner of your eye, catch Him holding not a gun, but His Index Finger against the back of your skull.

Afterward, He'll be rotflHAo.
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

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Post by Neoplato »

Perhaps, since Joe is the one who thinks for you, you can tickle his toes and get him stirred up to so I can deal with him directly, and cut out the one who is
Sure.
And no mytrhology that continues to speak or to teach of "elesewheres" and "outsiders" meets the requirements of this hour. -Joseph Campbell
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.

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Post by jufa »

And no mytrhology that continues to speak or to teach of "elesewheres" and "outsiders" meets the requirements of this hour. -Joseph Campbell
Why?
Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com

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Post by Clemsy »

Challenge!

Relate all this back to Symbolism and the Individual!

Remember the lecture? This is a discussion about the lecture. But hey... we're loose with the staying on topic thing here so if it's back to 42, that's okay with me.

I'll head back over to the SF thread...
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

jonsjourney
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Post by jonsjourney »

How many cookies you got? -BD
Plenty! :D

Yes, I do enjoy tickling Joe's toes and "letting him speak for me". Ok...seriously....

Biggie...

His explanation in Mythos II is quite deep. In fact, I have not found any other of his lectures to be quite so in depth...as he takes us from the foundational thinking of Hinduism to Buddhism and then onward to Kundalini Yoga, where he does a nice job tying in psychological theory...and then out the transcendent top hatch. If you do not have it, consider getting it, it is fantastic...IMHO.

I do not feel it is necessary to defend using Joe's work at a guidepost toward philosophical thought. It seems that some folks already have it figured out, which begs the question why bother with us who are still floundering in the mud...most of the time when one reaches nirvana, they just walk into the woods.

What I know for sure: Nothing
What I want to know for sure: Nothing
What I want to do right now: Have another Oreo! :wink:
"He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot." -Douglas Adams

BiggieDe
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Post by BiggieDe »

Man can stay an earth bound Spirit, and continue to live in the fears of holocaust with the thought interpretation this world demand from those whom are afraid to move on. This world mentality will only use the biological body of individual man until the time limit of it has expired, then it will throw man's biological body back into the snake pit of man's own vomit of thought interpretations.
Hi jufa.

This quote to me is what the concept of subtle/gross matter is all about. People get used up and thrown away on this earth by all sorts of efforts that are materially-based. It's horrific, really! That's what JC is talking about when he talks about gross matter. That's what the level of gross matter is all about. But, the same experience of life here on Earth contains an aspect of subtle matter which can ultimately overcome the gross. Campbell uses the story of Jesus to illustrate "subtle matter." Campbell's story was the Devil tempting Jesus to throw himself off a building and God will bear him up, etc. (one of his three temptations of Christ.) Ultimately, Christ knew while he was on earth he was still "gross" and couldn't throw himself off the building and live. Now, that's an important thing to keep in mind and never forget. We all have that side of ourselves, the gross, and need to make allowances for it. BUT!!!, we also have the "subtle" as well.

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Post by Neoplato »

Because:
It is -and will forever be as long as our human race exists- the old, everlasting perennial mythology, in its "subjective sense" poetically renewed in terms neither of a remembered past nor of a projected future, but of now: addressed that is to say, not to the flattery of "peoples"but to the waking individuals in the knowledge of themselves, not simply as egos fighting for a place on the surface of this beautiful planet, but equally as centers of Mind at Large-each in his own way at one with all, and with no horizons.- Joseph Campbell.
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.

jufa
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Post by jufa »

Clemsy, my post was in response to your following post:

For some reason, I'm reminded of a scene in a Pratchett novel. A guy says to Death, "They say before death a persons life passes before theIr eyes."

Death replies, "YES. THAT'S PRECISELY WHAT HAPPENS." (He always speaks in caps.)
Where is the symbolism and individualism within it?
Never give power to anything a person believe is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com

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Post by BiggieDe »

For some reason, I'm reminded of a scene in a Pratchett novel. A guy says to Death, "They say before death a persons life passes before theIr eyes."

Death replies, "YES. THAT'S PRECISELY WHAT HAPPENS." (He always speaks in caps.) - Clemsy
We die a little every day. :arrow:

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