Lecture I.2.2 - The Inward Journey

This forum is for focused discussions on The Collected Lectures of Joseph Campbell. Each lecture has its own dedicated conversation.

Moderators: Clemsy, Martin_Weyers, Cindy B.

Clemsy
Working Associate
Posts: 10645
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2002 6:00 am
Location: The forest... somewhere north of Albany
Contact:

Lecture I.2.2 - The Inward Journey

Post by Clemsy »

Image

Lecture I.2.2 - The Inward Journey

Download this Lecture: HERE

Read the Transcript: HERE
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

Clemsy
Working Associate
Posts: 10645
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2002 6:00 am
Location: The forest... somewhere north of Albany
Contact:

Post by Clemsy »

“I’ll tell you what is true. I’ve heard the voice of the universe. And it is gentle, and it is kind, and it is like a mother speaking. Or it is like the fall of snow. Or it is like children laughing and playing. And what it says is do not be afraid of the universe.” ~Shaman to Knud Rasmussen
Once in a while, if one is mindful, this voice can be heard, even if it is just an unexpected whisper, or a brief moment that slips away the moment one tries to grab hold of it. According to Campbell in this lecture, a certain kind of psychological crack-up can bring you to that place where the sound is crystal clear.

Doesn't sound like a particular journey I'd like to take voluntarily! I guess that's the key: he found evidence that a kind of schizophrenic experience will take you on that hero journey. Take you. As in hijack. There are three ways one can find one's self on such a journey. This is one. It's not voluntary. You're thrown into the water and you have to learn pretty quick how to swim. The stories I've heard would seem to say that this is the moment to relax, don't fight it, go with it. I wonder, though, if a psychological breakdown of this magnitude is necessary to get to that 'center' where the voice of the universe can be heard.

Interesting. Right now I'm studying Catcher in the Rye with my sophomores. I read the story in high school, again in college and once or twice since then but still long ago. Today I read the story of the death of Holden Caulfield's brother Allie to all three classes and each time was completely taken by the absolute power of the passage. Here it is. At this point, Holden has been asked by his roommate to write a descriptive composition for him, and Holden is deciding what to write:
The thing was, I couldn't think of a room or a house or anything to describe the way Stradlater said he had to have. I'm not too crazy about describing rooms and houses anyway. So what I did, I wrote about my brother Allie's baseball mitt. It was a very descriptive subject. It really was. My brother Allie had this left-handed fielder's mitt. He was left-handed. The thing that was descriptive about it, though, was that he had poems written all over the fingers and the pocket and everywhere. In green ink. He wrote them on it so that he'd have something to read when he was in the field and nobody was up at bat. He's dead now. He got leukemia and died when we were up in Maine, on July 18, 1946. You'd have liked him. He was two years younger than I was, but he was about fifty times as intelligent. He was terrifically intelligent. His teachers were always writing letters to my mother, telling her what a pleasure it was having a boy like Allie in their class. And they weren't just shooting the crap. They really meant it. But it wasn't just that he was the most intelligent member in the family. He was also the nicest, in lots of ways. He never got mad at anybody. People with red hair are supposed to get mad very easily, but Allie never did, and he had very red hair. I'll tell you what kind of red hair he had. I started playing golf when I was only ten years old. I remember once, the summer I was around twelve, teeing off and all, and having a hunch that if I turned around all of a sudden, I'd see Allie. So I did, and sure enough, he was sitting on his bike outside the fence--there was this fence that went all around the course--and he was sitting there, about a hundred and fifty yards behind me, watching me tee off. That's the kind of red hair he had. God, he was a nice kid, though. He used to laugh so hard at something he thought of at the dinner table that he just about fell off his chair. I was only thirteen, and they were going to have me psychoanalyzed and all, because I broke all the windows in the garage. I don't blame them. I really don't. I slept in the garage the night he died, and I broke all the goddam windows with my fist, just for the hell of it. I even tried to break all the windows on the station wagon we had that summer, but my hand was already broken and everything by that time, and I couldn't do it. It was a very stupid thing to do, I'll admit, but I hardly didn't even know I was doing it, and you didn't know Allie. My hand still hurts me once in a while when it rains and all, and I can't make a real fist any more--not a tight one, I mean--but outside of that I don't care much. I mean I'm not going to be a goddam surgeon or a violinist or anything anyway.
I nearly choked up each time I read that. It's a brilliant description of the kind of breakdown that has to be dealt with, you have to go into it, and come back, washed up on the shore, alone, like Odysseus. Of course, Holden never really does deal with it. That's the point of the story. He's not swimming. He's splashing around for years like a madman.

The point is that each crisis we face is a hero journey. You dive deep into whatever it is and you have to come through the other side. But if you pay attention, real close, there's a point, I believe, where that voice will come through. It says just what the shaman claims, "...do not be afraid of the universe."

How else do parents continue after losing a child? How else does one, confronting the finality of a terminal illness, come to a place of acceptance? People do this all the time.

I find it very encouraging.

At the end of this lecture, Campbell says,
You’ve got to know what world you are moving in at the time. It is one thing to go into bliss, sure, that is one aspect and it’s a darn true aspect, it is a reality, it is no fooling. But this is a reality too. That Cadillac coming down the way is God also. And it is a good idea to watch out for the dual, as well as unified aspect of this divine thing that is the world we live in.


You do that by saying, "Yes."

Cheers,
Clemsy
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

Neoplato
Associate
Posts: 3907
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Neoplato »

“I’ll tell you what is true: I’ve heard the voice of the universe. And it is gentle, and it is kind, and it is like a mother speaking; or, it is like the fall of snow; or it is like children laughing and playing. And what it says is: ‘Do not be afraid of the universe.’” He had had the kind of experience that one hears of from the great mystics—these are very simple men.
Beautiful! Simply beautiful! 8)

I love this comparison of schizophrenia to the Hero’s Journey. I even appreciated this more after reading Jung!.
These are the images that in the psychology of Jung are called the archetypes of the collective unconscious. Now what he means by the collective unconscious is those powers that derive from the biological instinct system of man.
I find it interesting that Joe used the word “Powers” here. I’ve recently come across another school of thought that refers to archetypes as “powers”. Joe elaborates more in the next sentence.
They (animals) are impelled by powers which they did not think out, but which really govern their lives. So is man so governed. It is these powers that manifest themselves through these archetypes.
So I will say (and I’ve probably said this somewhere else) that the “neurosis” occurs when the actions and behaviors within the societal structure of man are in direct conflict to the “powers” of human instinct.
Now in the human being we have an instinct system, and it is pushing us. But we have also a culture system. Now the peculiar thing about man that distinguishes him from all other animals is that he is born twelve years too soon.
Yep…definitely wrote about this before. :D :wink:

But let’s consider this. Why is it that in some people, the instinctual powers decide to rebel against societal preprogramming? Most people seem to function contently all their lives with no attack. Other people wind up locked in the “bughouse” (my father used to use that word).

And then you have those that survive the instinctual onslaught. Mmmm…I wonder what happens to those people? :wink: :wink: :wink:
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.

CarmelaBear
Associate
Posts: 4087
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Post by CarmelaBear »

Joseph Campbell wrote:And to my great amazement I found that the imagery of the schizophrenic paralleled almost point for point the themes that I had rendered in The Hero With a Thousand Faces...
Short of the schizophrenic break, there are myriad life experiences that can be equally intense and result in similar transformation.

I think many of the people who find an affinity with the archetypal hero in the work of Campbell have achieved a mystical transformation not unlike the overwhelming experience of the psychotic. I don't think they are anywhere near being psychotic, but there are other ways to arrive at a similar place, where one is "not afraid of the universe".

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

bodhibliss
Working Associate
Posts: 1659
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 5:00 am

Post by bodhibliss »

CarmelaBear wrote:
Joseph Campbell wrote:And to my great amazement I found that the imagery of the schizophrenic paralleled almost point for point the themes that I had rendered in The Hero With a Thousand Faces...
Short of the schizophrenic break, there are myriad life experiences that can be equally intense and result in similar transformation.
Agreed - this is very much Campbell's point.
CarmelaBear wrote:I think many of the people who find an affinity with the archetypal hero in the work of Campbell have achieved a mystical transformation not unlike the overwhelming experience of the psychotic. I don't think they are anywhere near being psychotic, but there are other ways to arrive at a similar place, where one is "not afraid of the universe".
Don't leave the conversation hanging! What would some of these other ways be?

:D

CarmelaBear
Associate
Posts: 4087
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Post by CarmelaBear »

bodhibliss wrote:
CarmelaBear wrote:I think many of the people who find an affinity with the archetypal hero in the work of Campbell have achieved a mystical transformation not unlike the overwhelming experience of the psychotic. I don't think they are anywhere near being psychotic, but there are other ways to arrive at a similar place, where one is "not afraid of the universe".
Don't leave the conversation hanging! What would some of these other ways be?

:D
Other ways that come to mind quickly are the most familiar to nearly all of us at one time or another. There are events in the lives of people that are so intense that they reverse the poles of our experience.

Examples:

There are deaths that make or break those who are deeply affected. The death of a father can transform a ten-year old boy into a human being with a great capacity for concentration. Mothers who suffer the death of a child have an average life expectancy of only eight more years, no matter how young they were when the child perished.

Radical changes in the brain and it's chemistry can produce transformations of astounding clarity. The near-death experience can change everything. The use of meditation techniques that result in the construction of complex neuropathways in the brain can ignite powers of the mind rarely seen, providing the mystic with astounding capacities for expression and healing and transforming others. Though there are chemical substances that can produce similar psychotropic states, the ability to steer the boat on the waters of the unconscious may drastically limit the outcome.

Severe trauma can bend some people without breaking them. As Shakespeare wisely noted, "Adversity prepares you for adversity". The blind may learn to "see" or understand in superior ways. The victim may feel especially empowered to act on behalf of the weak on account of having survived an affront or attack. The learner may find some new knowledge so paradigm-changing that one is able to transcend the most otherwise limiting reality.

The lover is transfixed by a partner who is physically imperfect and spiritually beautiful.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

fancypants786
Associate
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:40 am

Post by fancypants786 »

Hello everyone,

I'm brand new to the forum and pretty new to Joseph Campbell. I find him a fascinating read and figure. I am still spending time going through reading his work on the site and i just finished reading the Inward Journey. Still processing and still a bit nervous about conversing on the site, but I will do my best and try to use this time to help my mind get organized in expressing my thoughts on his work.

For now all I can say is this piece of lecture really opened my eyes to not only schizophrenia but mysticism in general. A whole new light is shed by reading this lecture. I happen to be a Sufi, and an INFP so this was very intersting to say the least.

fancypants786
Associate
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:40 am

Post by fancypants786 »

"Severe trauma can bend some people without breaking them. As Shakespeare wisely noted, "Adversity prepares you for adversity". The blind may learn to "see" or understand in superior ways. The victim may feel especially empowered to act on behalf of the weak on account of having survived an affront or attack. The learner may find some new knowledge so paradigm-changing that one is able to transcend the most otherwise limiting reality.

The lover is transfixed by a partner who is physically imperfect and spiritually beautiful."

~[/quote]

So beautifully said, thank you. Very resonant.

Neoplato
Associate
Posts: 3907
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Neoplato »

Hi FancyPants and welcome to the forum.
I happen to be a Sufi
Well in that case we're practically siblings. :D

"Neo-Plantonist" is the best term I came across to describe myself. There's a general idea behind it but it is broad enough to cover many aspects of different monistic thoughts.
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.

fancypants786
Associate
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:40 am

Post by fancypants786 »

Hi Neoplato, wonderful to meet you! Thank you for the welcome. "Neo-Plantonist" huh? I'm intrigued. Can you elaborate? Thank you. I want to learn as much as I can. That's why I joined the forum! :wink:

I have been wanting to read "Hero With a Thousand Faces" and "The Power of Myth" for a long time. Wished I could get my finances in order though, as I am laid off. I'll keep focusing on wanting to and have faith I'll be led in the right direction.

Clemsy
Working Associate
Posts: 10645
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2002 6:00 am
Location: The forest... somewhere north of Albany
Contact:

Post by Clemsy »

Hi fancypants786! Allow me to also welcome you to the JCF Conversations of a Higher Order. Please feel free to ask questions.
I have been wanting to read "Hero With a Thousand Faces" and "The Power of Myth" for a long time. Wished I could get my finances in order though, as I am laid off. I'll keep focusing on wanting to and have faith I'll be led in the right direction.
Have you tried your local library?

Cheers,
Clemsy
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

Neoplato
Associate
Posts: 3907
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: Virginia
Contact:

Post by Neoplato »

"Neo-Plantonist" huh? I'm intrigued. Can you elaborate? Thank you.
Unfortunately, this isn't the right thread to start the discussion. I've made comments on many threads in the past, but I never started a "Neo-Platonist" thread. I'd be happy to create one under "Conversations with a Thousand Faces".

Thanks for your interest.

:D
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.

fancypants786
Associate
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:40 am

Post by fancypants786 »

I'll look for it Neo. Thanks.

Hi Clemsy. Thank you for the welcome, I'm glad to be here! Last time I checked the local library didn't have it. I was thinking of heading down to the bigger library but have not made it yet. Too much to do always! I should give them a call at least.

CarmelaBear
Associate
Posts: 4087
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:51 pm
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Post by CarmelaBear »

fancypants786 wrote:
CarmelaBear wrote:Severe trauma can bend some people without breaking them. As Shakespeare wisely noted, "Adversity prepares you for adversity". The blind may learn to "see" or understand in superior ways. The victim may feel especially empowered to act on behalf of the weak on account of having survived an affront or attack. The learner may find some new knowledge so paradigm-changing that one is able to transcend the most otherwise limiting reality.

The lover is transfixed by a partner who is physically imperfect and spiritually beautiful.

~
So beautifully said, thank you. Very resonant.

Welcome to the conversations, FP....and, oh! your kind words are greatly appreciated.

:D

Does a present-day Sufi perform the sama ceremony?

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

lunaronin
Associate
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:39 am
Location: the River Valley of the Great Desert at sunset

Post by lunaronin »

This in a way reminds me of how I passed through my own darkness. I guess in a way--in hindsight--I had my own hero's journey, although it certainly didn't seem so at the time.

Back when I first started college, I suddenly found myself alone most of the time since when I was free, most of my new-found friends were busy with classes or with work and sometimes I found myself on an hour-long bike ride through the city to my job at another college. At the time, the new solitude was very new to me, and I began to have thoughts that had never occured before. They were very dark thoughts like hurting people and such. At the time I was very shocked with myself because I had never even imagined I could be capable of such ideas, and that fact convinced me that I was a demon. That slowly began a war that I would spend fighting for many years.

When I transferred the next year to the other college that I worked at, I was too busy to have such thoughts, and I had different friends and concerns. I also began learning Japanese and was gaining friends that way, also. That darkness that had so concerned me the year before had become a distant memory, even as I slipped into being a lone wolf on some occasions.

Then I went to Japan to study for a year. There I was more social than I had ever been in all my life--and I was for the first time truly happy. However, I learned there that I was truly a solitary creature, spending much of my time alone, even with so many new friends.

When I came back to the states, I tried to maintain that social network since most of my Japanese friends were now at my school. When that failed, I slipped into deep depression, and I my demon came back with a powerful wrath. It was always on my mind and threatened to consume me. I fell into myself so deeply I didn't think I'd ever recover, but somehow I finished school with no incidents and was able to at least project the image of sanity, even as solitude consumed me.

After finishing school, I stayed near the campus. Throughout all that time, I dealt with my demon. After so many years of endless and pointless fighting with it, I tried a new approach. In my mind, I saw myself as a warrior-knight to confront my demon. Both were me, and yet I had to choose which I wanted to be--what kind of person I wanted to become. I chose the knight, but instead of trying to destroy the demon, which I learned didn't work, I subdued it by reason. It was a part of my psyche and thus it must submit to my will. It worked. It was my then my slave. In my head, I called myself 'we'--myself and my demon--like the turtle in the movie The Neverending Story. I slowly bent the demon to my side and made it my ally. That was many years ago--about the time I first learned about Joseph Campbell through my accidental discovery of The Hero with a Thousand Faces in the local library.

Since then I have enjoyed my new ally and am slowly re-assimilating it into my psyche. With it conquered, however, I have also learned to tap into its energy to empower myself--the 'power' attained through the archetypes.

I never before considered that I might have been suffering schizophrenia--whether I was or not--and I never once considered it a personal 'hero's journey,' but reading the lecture and your comments, everyone, maybe it was. The experience most definitely transformed me from what I was. I don't think it made me shift into an adult mode of thinking. I attribute that to another book I recently read dedicated to just that. However, that experience certainly put me on the right track and prepared me for the different shift in consciousness. Looking back, the experience changed me for the better, and now I have more strength for other conflicts. 'Adversity prepares you for adversity.'

Locked