Lecture I.2.3 - Confrontation of East and West in Religion

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Nermin
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Post by Nermin »

Very glad you're back, James
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Ercan2121
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Post by Ercan2121 »

JamesN. wrote:Hello everyone.

I stumbled across this interview of Joseph Campbell and thought it might be of interest here. It was done after his book: " The Inner Reaches of Outer Space " for this is mentioned. It covers several different themes being discussed in this thread.

Enjoy: :wink:

http://www.yessaid.com/jc1.html


Namaste :)
Thank you for the great link, James.
Here's my favorite passage;
Well, I’m not a mystic, in that I don’t practice any austerities, and I’ve never had a mystical experience. So I’m not a mystic. I’m a scholar, and that’s all. I remember when Alan Watts one time asked me, “Joe, what yoga do you practice?” I said, “I underline sentences.” And that’s all I’m doing.
:)

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Post by Nermin »

The mythological imagery (is supposed to present) a total image of the universe; but that total image of the universe must be up to date. It’s got to be in relationship to this fabulous universe that we experience today.
That's directly from Joseph Campbell's lecture. We all have an idea about the old
environment but most people don't know what to think about new discoveries and
doubt arises as a result of this duality. Who can unite these two?
Who can help us in this respect?
True friendship is based on trust, honesty and sincere generosity of our hearts

Ercan2121
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Post by Ercan2121 »

Nermin wrote:That's directly from Joseph Campbell's lecture. We all have an idea about the old environment but most people don't know what to think about new discoveries and
doubt arises as a result of this duality. Who can unite these two?
Who can help us in this respect?
It often starts by asking questions, Nermin, especially when there can be
a wide range of answers :(

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Post by JamesN. »

Hello Ercan; nice to see your post.

This in my opinion could be used as a very interesting view to offer; and may also present an opportunity to get at this conundrum from a different vantage point.

Part of the difficulty I see in bridging these different points-of-view into any kind of cohesive outlook is in understanding not only the different psychological positions of the spiritual and scientific; but also in seeing the connections from what one might define as a more modern and expanded dimensional lense. Joseph Campbell refers to this again and again throughout his work.

The challenge as I see it is in translating these modern scientific discoveries into an accessible understanding and connecting this new knowledge to a spiritual comprehension so that modern human beings can come into a more harmonic relationship with the world they have inherited instead of a theological conflict. ( In other words a reinterpretation. ) It's current understanding of application of modern life is not adequate enough to meet it's demands. Metaphorically speaking to me this bridge would be interpreted more like the difference between: ( " The common humanity sharing the compassion of human kindness as oppossed to lighting a match to a can of gasoline. Or put another way: offering an Olive Branch instead of taking an eye for an eye " ). Joe mentions over and over these older " out-of-sync " theological interpretations produce the conflicts and inhuman conditions like what is happening not only in the Middle East for instance; but also globally. And one can surely see this dynamic displayed all over the planet with different cultural and spiritual differences at war with each other causing unbelievable suffering and misery.

So how does one approach this dilemma of reconciliation. To me; one way would be from the psychological vantage point or position you just suggested; ( with the asking of questions or exploring the sense of possibility as a starting point ); and procede from there. ( And I might add; that the only way in the beginning is in a practical; realistic; and common-sensical way; with a compassionate and humane tone just for starters. Although they are probaly " Not " going to accept " Bill Nye - The Science Guy " and his interesting approach recently in stating his view on the misrepresentation of the teaching of " Evolution " and the overall effect it had on children's education. :wink: ) But at least finding common grounds of agreement that serve most of the interests; would be a starting place; and then later one could contemplate how to approach a more intelligent view of perception in these conflicts.

Of course you are going to have to get some of these folks; ( like the clerics for instance ); to the table to compromise a little which they are probably not going to want to do. The hardcore conservative or fundamentalist hardliners for instance; are going to be reluctant because it does not serve their interests and the doctrines they use or at least the way they have interpreted it. So that is probably one place where the problem is going to start. But; just like with Jimmy Carter's: " Camp David Peace Accord " with Eygpt; it has been done at least on one level. ( Peace and a new global spiritual reinterpretation or understanding " might take alot of time and effort " to get traction on; but in the end " you have to start somewhere ". ) Just stopping the slaughter would be good for openers. And it might be a better alternative than say; a full out nuclear conflict with Iran; Israel; and whoever else is involved. First you have to get them to the table; ( and that means with Russia, China, the west, the Arab League; the UN; or whoever is invovled ). That also includes overcoming the power struggles and buisness interests envolved as well. ( A tall order no doubt. :roll: )

So although you may not have thought of this in quite those terms; I think your suggestion of ( asking questions concerning a place from which to start ) is a very good way to start to look at this Ercan; very nice indeed! In the end we may be forced to do just that whether everyone is in agreement or not! At some point " Mother Nature " may just step in and make her feelings known about everything that has been going on. :wink:


Namaste :)
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

Ercan2121
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Post by Ercan2121 »

James, my old friend, I think that I'm still owing you to tell a story,
my real story without any censure :) that I can't post here but maybe will
send you later privately. It takes a lifetime to understand a little what it is
about; then new generations come in and normally prefer to learn by living
rather than listening to others' expereince. And this way, it remains the same
no matter how much it changes :wink:

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Post by JamesN. »

Ercan. How good to hear from you.

No worries on the story; just hope you are well.

Life comes to us on it's own terms; it is a mystery; no?

Just glad to be here living it. :wink:
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

Ercan2121
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Post by Ercan2121 »

JamesN. wrote:Ercan. How good to hear from you.
Life comes to us on it's own terms; it is a mystery; no?
James,
It's very true that's a mystery and we'd better accept this fact
right at the start. That's a journey to the unknown and there's
millions of paths for each and everyone. Eastern way leads to
within (inner shores) while the typical Western mind is mostly
an extrovert. Don't you think it is?

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Post by JamesN. »

Hey Ercan.

Indeed; And in my opinion Joseph Campbell confirms much of this view throughout his work. ( Of course relative to the situation. :wink: ) Sorry but I can't spend much time at the moment. But maybe others have thoughts.

Cheers :)
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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Post by CarmelaBear »

JamesN. wrote: Life comes to us on it's own terms; it is a mystery; no?

Just glad to be here living it. :wink:
James, I'm glad to live it, too. Feeling the "me" of it, the sense of being a self-aware being is a great joy.

:lol:
Ercan2121 wrote:... Eastern way leads to
within (inner shores) while the typical Western mind is mostly
an extrovert. Don't you think it is?
Ercan, westerners value the extroversion of both the true extrovert and the mostly introvert (that's me). There is a sense of urgency about the individual actualizing what others might only dream, and we are prepared to throw off the collective, (or at least ignore it for a while), in order to show our faces and produce something in the world.

When the introvert looks at something, the eyes are open and visible to others.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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Post by Ercan2121 »

Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!
from Rudyard Kipling's the Ballad of East and West

and here's my link to Prof. Janusz Buda's (Waseda University, Japan)
English literature course page discussing the famous ballad;
http://www.f.waseda.jp/buda/texts/ballad.html
Thanks

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Post by Nermin »

One thing is certain, folks, East or West, silence or free speech, nothing stops at
our doorsteps anymore. Either we fight for our values, take risks and even sacrifice
or we perish and that's the plain fact for all cultures and all parties :(
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Post by Nermin »

And may-I ask something here, what happened to New Age movement that was
very very popular in sixties and seventies?
That was our formula as generation to all intercultural encounters :(
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Post by Neoplato »

Nermin wrote:And may-I ask something here, what happened to New Age movement that was
very very popular in sixties and seventies?
That was our formula as generation to all intercultural encounters :(
In my area "New Age" is very popular albeit that the definition has expanded.

However, what people don't realize is that New Age is Old Age repackaged and in many cases marketed and misrepresented.
Infinite moment, grants freedom of winter death, allows life to dawn.

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Post by CarmelaBear »

New Age was a post-hippie, consumer-driven fad. When the credibility dwindled and the hucksters exposed, the market took a dive.

I know. I bought a few interesting titles before I realized that they were written by pseudo-experts with mixed motives.

It was a movement of sorts, well-meaning and relatively harmless.

We are now called Nones (as in None of the Above). We mostly go searching and questing and show up late to life's most recent hit movie, hoping we live long enough to figure out what the ending might be.

:wink:
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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