Lecture I.2.3 - Confrontation of East and West in Religion

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Nermin
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Post by Nermin »

JamesN. wrote: I want to stop for a moment here to be sure this is not steering too far off topic. Because from Joe's lecture to here; from East meets West; you have this kind of collision of 2 different mindsets in a dance with each other. And this new dynamic that has evolved is an interplay of both and a third coming together-with effect instead of just conflict against; and it's results are now engaged in a new and different awareness because the world is more involved. It's watching together in the moment. More like a square dance or folk dance with everybody dancing together in a group if you will; than a waltz of a separate pair of individuals;( if that makes any sense ). This may be a bit convoluted so I'll just say a larger dimension of awareness. I think it's kind of like the mind-at-large concept Joe mentions if I understand correctly.
Thank you, James :)
I don't think there can be an on topic/off topic problem on JCF forums.
We're taking inspiration from lectures but each one's ornamenting the main idea
as he/she pleases and it's always a pleasure to read you :)

Ercan2121
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Post by Ercan2121 »

A hailstorm of information from all around the world [and also space] has become a part of our daily lives. Let alone reading a book in full, we don’t seem to have enough time to read all the e-mails that we receive in a day. Can-we say assuredly that our nervous systems are well-equipped to process that enormous amount of information within the given time of rest commonly provided? Or, did-we start thinking faster as a result of this incidental burden? Can-we suggest this condition as one of valid definitions for ‘no more horizons’? Probably.

On the other hand, we still look very divided by cultural boundaries and majority of people cannot even imagine any life beyond their cultural parish and this makes clash and war inevitable as James had pointed out in an earlier post.

We are mythical beings -so to speak. We cannot make without day-dreaming and anytime someone comments on what is happening, a new myth is born and starts serving as a defense mechanism as we are incapable to face the powerlessness of each individual life in simple terms. And we seek comfort in multifarious rituals that give us a sense of periodicity that we decisively need for a minimum health of mind. Because linearity is very alien to the nature of known Universe. All is cyclical except some of our widespread theories about human life while ‘we’re standing on whale and fishing for minnows’. Generations come and go and this doesn’t seem to change.

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Post by JamesN. »

Hello Ercan and Nermin.

I've been a little busy but have been thinking about our conversation when I stumbled across this wonderful little ( Pearl of Wisdom ) of Jiddu Krisnamurti from the documentry site link Andeas left across the way on another forum and I've listed it below.( Nermin the link to this might have been located near a conversation you were having with Cindy recently. )

Ercan this might fit right in with your post and some of the things we have been talking about on this East meets West thread. It sure was a beautiful find. As you may be already aware Jiddu Krishnamuriti was a major influence early in Joseph Campbell's life in his development of thought and exposure to eastern philosophy.


Jiddu Krishnamuriti lecture in 1966. Type in the search window : " The Real Revolution "or select out of the catagories popup window in the philosophy catagory. This 404 error face page is all I could access but the search window will work. There is another selection called " The Challenge of Change " but it is a small segment of a larger documentry. ( These opened up a whole bunch of other clips. ) I think you may like some of this. Fascinating Stuff!


http://www.truththeory.org/lists/


Cheers my friends :D
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

Nermin
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Post by Nermin »

Thank you for suggesting this great lecture, James.
I turned to Mother India for seeking compassion
and understanding throughout my life so, in a sense
this lecture is a little difficult for people like me :oops:

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Post by CarmelaBear »

Tx for the link, James.
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

Ercan2121
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Post by Ercan2121 »

And it is not just technology that is changing but people are changing as well. Not just with smartphones and laptops or desktops;but what they think and the way they look at the things that they contemplate. Also consider Google and the availability of information for instance; or software; or any of the dozens of other tech hardware and applications like GPS, music or video entertainment; or medical science breakthroughs and on and on and on.
Here, may-we ask what the latest technology is representing - whether it's green or
just another expression of our frenzied efforts to build even better machines for
communication -keeping in mind the Technology & Nature discussion that was
launched on JCF maybe one year ago :?:

http://www.jcf.org/new/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4573

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Post by Nermin »

& here's the latest news from scientific world (professedly using the latest technology available for detecting and analysing elementary particles :) )
On 4 July 2012, the CMS and the ATLAS experimental collaborations at the Large Hadron Collider announced that they observed a new boson that is consistent with the Higgs boson, noting that further data and analysis were needed before the particle could be positively identified.
Why the Higgs particle is so important
by Marcel van Velzen, theoretical physicist
Last edited by Nermin on Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
True friendship is based on trust, honesty and sincere generosity of our hearts

Ercan2121
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Post by Ercan2121 »

Nermin wrote:& here's the latest news from scientific world (professedly using the
latest technology available for detecting and analysing elementary particles :) )
On 4 July 2012, the CMS and the ATLAS experimental collaborations at the Large Hadron Collider announced that they observed a new boson that is consistent with the Higgs boson, noting that further data and analysis were needed before the particle could be positively identified.
Why the Higgs particle is so important
by Marcel van Velzen, theoretical physicist
Thank you so much :idea:

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Post by Nermin »

The most important concept is not the Higgs particle but the Higgs field.
By finding and studying the Higgs particle one hopes to find out more about the
properties of the Higgs field.
& the Higgs field is a field that fills the entire universe and with which we continuously
interact and so we "feel" the presence of the Higgs field.
Because of this continuous interaction we are heavy and do not fly through space with
the speed of light. The Higgs particle is the ripple of the lowest possible energy in the
Higgs field.
That's directly from Marcel van Velzen's article, folks :wink:
True friendship is based on trust, honesty and sincere generosity of our hearts

Ercan2121
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Post by Ercan2121 »

They say that Higgs mechanism is the very process that breaks the initial symmetry
in the Universe -providing mass to elementary particles and making diversity possible :)

Just imagine 'a field permeating all of space with a non-zero value everywhere (and
even at its lowest energy state) providing some mass to other particles
' (whenever
they interact). Higgs boson is also defined as the smallest possible excitation of
this field
:idea:

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Post by Clemsy »

Try not to take this too far from the topic, folks! Hmmm... how to connect the Higgs boson with the Confrontation of East and West in Religion.

Have at it! :-)
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

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Post by jd101 »

Clemsy and all,

It has been a couple of years since I've visited the forums, and I happened to choose this one tonight.

So, hello once again. All of the audio collections have been tremendously inspiring to me, so to bring it back to the theme of 'Confrontation East & West' here are a few points that jump out at me.

A primary theme of the lecture is that the myths are breaking down. How are they breaking down?, well if one believes the myths as historical fact, which is done both in the East and West from my experience, and scientific advances invalidate the facts, you lose the energy of the symbol.

This is one of the central threads.

So with the case of the Higgs Boson, this could be a new evolution in our cosmology. Recalling the 4 functions of an 'healthy mythology', (healthy meaning one that works!), as students of Campbell we recall that the 2nd function was described as that of the Cosmological. So it is important the whatever Cosmology you believe is current with the science of the day so that it energizes the local symbols.

The other thing that really pops out at me is a comment Campbell made about the dropping out. Ercan makes a similar observation of 'a hailstorm of information'.

I live in the urban setting of San Diego, and it really does seem that in the cities around the globe, and especially with the younger crowds, that information and stuff hitting your senses is just very rapid, continuous and overwhelming. My perception is that with the exploding number of human rats rapidly filling up the cage of the world, that the systems of the planet are breaking apart at a pace much quicker than when Campbell spoke.

Campbell points out the negative side of this in his description of the 'deficiency of the will', which is quite apparent to me today, but JC also asks if there is a positive side as well.

Now, on the bright side, there are many different 'tribes' that are bringing awareness to these problems, and undoubtedly we are evolving new ways of being around the craziness. I hold up as a shining example the JCF.org forum members.

2 years ago, in introducing this thread, Bodhi asked what our rituals are. While I will personally leave that question unanswered for another time, and perhaps I will be able to pen an essay of my own footsteps following Joe ½ century later into the caves at Lascaux, and onto the goma fire ceremonies of the Yamabushi priests of Japan, I will say this;

If we focus upon, instead of the individual, but rather the universal themes that rise and fall within each of us, and align ourselves and discover a way to really feel and experience the awe and wonder of that primal mystery, then perhaps....
john

Nermin
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Post by Nermin »

jd101 wrote: So with the case of the Higgs Boson, this could be a new evolution in our cosmology. Recalling the 4 functions of an 'healthy mythology', (healthy meaning one that works!), as students of Campbell we recall that the 2nd function was described as that of the Cosmological. So it is important the whatever Cosmology you believe is current with the science of the day so that it energizes the local symbols.

The other thing that really pops out at me is a comment Campbell made about the dropping out. Ercan makes a similar observation of 'a hailstorm of information'.
Hello,
In my opinion, the real question is what can be our response to the environment?
Can-we mythologize latest scientific facts or not? Our modern society is highly
atomized and many young people don't really know where to turn for guidance :(
True friendship is based on trust, honesty and sincere generosity of our hearts

JamesN.
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Post by JamesN. »

Hello everyone.

I stumbled across this interview of Joseph Campbell and thought it might be of interest here. It was done after his book: " The Inner Reaches of Outer Space " for this is mentioned. It covers several different themes being discussed in this thread.

Enjoy: :wink:

http://www.yessaid.com/jc1.html


Namaste :)
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

Andreas
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Post by Andreas »

Thanks, James, wonderful.
“To live is enough.” ― Shunryu Suzuki

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