Lecture I.2.3 - Confrontation of East and West in Religion

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Clemsy
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Post by Clemsy »

We are just not going to take the time to understand Asian history and the role of colonialism in how it has unfolded. That kind of perspective undermines our self-serving propaganda.
That is very well said, JJ. Apply that thought to the Middle East (where arbitrary lines were drawn to create countries after WWI, the Palestinians were just totally screwed after WWII, and the democratically elected president of a progressive Iran was ousted because he nationalized the oil industry) and most of Africa (especially the Rwandan genocide) and you get what we have today.

The causality is irrefutable.
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Post by CarmelaBear »

jonsjourney wrote: Sometimes the world turns far too slowly when compared to the speed of the mind.
Your statement refers to those insights of the mind that would improve the lives of humans and other living things.

Unfortunately, nearly all the things we experience as awful can be attributed to the workings of the mind.

Ours is only one kind of mind. The minds of those who believed that the earth was the center of the universe had a monopoly on power for centuries. As of this moment, the Levantine religions are calling the shots, and it is not clear when they will ever admit that their ideas about God are a hypocritical disservice to everything they claim to believe.

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Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

Ercan2121
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Post by Ercan2121 »

Ours is only one kind of mind. The minds of those who believed that the earth was the center of the universe had a monopoly on power for centuries. As of this moment, the Levantine religions are calling the shots, and it is not clear when they will ever admit that their ideas about God are a hypocritical disservice to everything they claim to believe.
What I cannot understand is that basically nothing seems wrong with the myths in
Middle East. I admit that contradictory or hostile passages abound in books,
however, there is a good number of people in all three religions who seem to have found
the spiritual message and who can remain centred-objective-compassionate
in spite of all.
So maybe we can question the intention and focus, here.
Do you know any other region in the world that local myths have so much
influenced others in spite of all linguistic differences?
Last edited by Ercan2121 on Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:49 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Post by Ercan2121 »

Very sorry once again for double posting. Maybe I'm editing too long?

CarmelaBear
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Post by CarmelaBear »

Ercan2121 wrote:
...Levantine religions are calling the shots, and it is not clear when they will ever admit that their ideas about God are a hypocritical disservice to everything they claim to believe.
What I cannot understand is that basically nothing seems wrong with the myths in
Middle East. I admit that contradictory or hostile passages abound in books,
however, there is a good number of people in all three religions who seem to have found the spiritual message and who can remain centred-objective-compassionate
in spite of all.

So maybe we can question the intention and focus, here. Do you know any other region in the world that local myths have so much influenced others in spite of all linguistic differences?
There was nothing wrong with the myth of the earth being the center of the universe, but myth-makers claimed two divine powers with real consequences for real human beings. One power was the knowledge of truth from which there is no escape or alternative. The other power is the exclusive capacity to use force to compel individuals and groups to conform to their own world view.

Current myth is not about the earth being the center of the universe. In this age, the Levantine myth claims the power to establish, without question, the central status of an artificially and arbitrarily identified hierarchy of values that divide the world into good and evil, light and dark, tribal insiders and alien outsiders, etc. The myth-holders claim and use the divinely-assumed right to force others, under pain of suffering and death, to conform to the social order dictated by a myth-driven monopoly on violence and financial gain.

Myths are stories and metaphors representing larger truth. Sacred truth is filtered by experience. The people are inherently the original keepers of the myth. In our case, it is the social order that is on shaky ground. Recall that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The Levantine forces are beyond the individual and way beyond the myth that seeks to use myth to justify oppression. The Middle Eastern way has corrupted my country to an extent that is shocking and has become an extreme threat to the world as a whole and to every individual on this planet.

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Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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Post by Ercan2121 »

CarmelaBear wrote:The Middle Eastern way has corrupted my country to an extent that is shocking and has become an extreme threat to the world as a whole and to every individual on this planet. ~
Carmela,
I live in the Levant and I can explain the difficult/problematic side
of this part of the world only with reference to Planetary Chakra theory;
that is New Age. Namely, my understanding might be unsuitable for this level
of discussion but I think that I can understand and pray for discovery of better
sources of energy than oil. Also pray for more democratic awareness.
Because here's my home :cry:

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Post by CarmelaBear »

Ercan2121 wrote: Carmela,
I live in the Levant and......here's my home :cry:
The geographic location is one thing, and the mindset is another.

There are a large number of Americans, including our president, who take their marching orders from a set of beliefs that I can only call "dangerous". On account of this, America has become a danger to humanity. The Levantine religions and their outdated dualism is making it more than difficult to do something about global warming and political oppression.

Your home is the world, Ercan, and we are neighbors.

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Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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Post by Ercan2121 »

Neigborhood is sacred & it's a nice thing to have democratic neighbors :-)

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Post by CarmelaBear »

:)
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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Post by Ercan2121 »

US has a big advantage over the old continent, Carmela and that’s about being
a giant country consisting of united states. You know what i mean?

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Post by Nermin »

Ercan2121 wrote:US has a big advantage over the old continent, Carmela and that’s about being
a giant country consisting of united states. You know what i mean?
Ercan,
I want to be honest on this matter and here's my opinion.
United States became the super power only after WWII and that was partly
a result of Europe's deadlock conflicts. Then, cold war was on the agenda and so on.
Today, most people think that US is a super power with a strong democratic
tradition -unlike PRC or Russia. EU didn't work very well and the democratic
nations worldwide feel that they have to rely on United States to preserve their
current course of action. I mean, I do agree with you :)

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Post by JamesN. »

Hello my friends;

If I am not intruding I would like to offer a suggestion to tuck away and think about now and then concerning the Turning World. ( The world is changing. ) Not in the way we might expect; not in the way we hoped it would or thought it would or think it will be. But changing it is!

Think about how much in the past years of our lifetime events like the Arab Spring for instance; or the Internet; or the Human Genome Project and then consider we didn't know then just like we don't know now about how these things would happen. There will be things both scary and amazing; frightening or exciting; and through it all we will be challenged; we will grow; and we will be here to share it if we choose.

What I am offering is this; ( we don't know - we just don't ). But could you have imagined a few years ago we would be here having a conversation like this; contemplating global changes unimaginable in our grandparents or parents lifetime with boundaries and once held thoughts literally disappearing right before our eyes? It is changing at an rate of ever increasing rate speed to the point now that you can actually see it happen online in the moment, globally. Wow! ( Think of that! ) We are having this conversation from different points of the planet just like we were at a small cafe together somewwhere. ( What a priviledge! )

And it is not just technology that is changing but people are changing as well. Not just with smartphones and laptops or desktops;but what they think and the way they look at the things that they contemplate. Also consider Google and the availability of information for instance; or software; or any of the dozens of other tech hardware and applications like GPS, music or video entertainment; or medical science breakthroughs and on and on and on.

From my timeline growing up to go on about how my computer was a pensil, paper and a library card evolving to this level is not the point. What I'm getting at is the way we envision what's ahead. We have no idea where we are headed but by speculation. We know there will most likely be war and disease and calamity. Things done by people to fellow human beings that will shock us or terror by natural causes that leave us feeling helpless before their power or any number of other nightmares that one could never conceive of. ( As Joe says acceptance of the nature of life is rule #1 and you are not going to change it. But you can participate with compassion in it's suffering with the joy of living in the knowledge that you are part of an existing and unfolding wonderous specticle in all it's magnificent glory. ) Like an Opera that hurts or a grand symphony from the microscopic to the macronomic; from the virus to the flower; from the songbird to the spaceship all performing before us on a timeless ground of earth and in a play of which we have a part. A poem we participate in perhaps by thinking of ritual as applied in this sense and in a new way. That ritualizing the little things we do like sharing a meal; or meditating; or helping our fellow human beings; or coming here to this website as part of that experience. Not just as entertainment, diversion, or curiousity; but as informing who we are; what we do; and what we may become - together - as a community of like mind;( unique in our different individuality; but united in our humanity ).

The Old World in many senses is falling away; faster than we realize; and countries will change too even though there are things that look dark and foreboding with ominious clouds rising in the distance. But the changes will come what ever they are and come they will; and we only can do the the best we can. But perhaps something new is being born and we are here to see it and be part of it in whatever way we are able. And I also think there are things ahead that will challenge everything we have; everything we know; and everything we can be in the broadest sense imaginable.( And to have this kind of company these days to witness it all and share it is pretty cool. ) 8)
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

Nermin
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Post by Nermin »

And it is not just technology that is changing but people are changing as well. Not just with smartphones and laptops or desktops;but what they think and the way they look at the things that they contemplate. Also consider Google and the availability of information for instance; or software; or any of the dozens of other tech hardware and applications like GPS, music or video entertainment; or medical science breakthroughs and on and on and on.
Sometimes I think that technology has become a purpose in itself :?:

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Post by Ercan2121 »

JamesN. wrote: The Old World in many senses is falling away; faster than we realize; and countries will change too even though there are things that look dark and foreboding with ominious clouds rising in the distance. But the changes will come what ever they are and come they will; and we only can do the the best we can. But perhaps something new is being born and we are here to see it and be part of it in whatever way we are able. And I also think there are things ahead that will challenge everything we have; everything we know; and everything we can be in the broadest sense imaginable.(


James,
Would-you like to clarify a little? What do you think that is expecting
our humanity in near future :?:

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Post by JamesN. »

Nermin and Ercan:

I'm stating this of course in a general sense but the evidence I'm seeing is pretty obvious from a wide range of sources such as: 1. Technology as we mentioned in a variety of ways like the computer and the smartphone both of which use the internet; 2.Globalization in the marketplace such as multi-national corporations, goods and services distribution. 3. Energy such as oil, nuclear, wind , solar, electric, and new developing bio-fuels such as corn, seaweed and so forth. The rise and development of Nationalism like in Eastern Europe or the rise of the before mentioned Arab Spring movement or various political unrest hotspots in a wide assortment of places. 4. Cultural assimilation like the constantly new developing news media outlets as in Asia for one example. 5.Climate change - although a little nebulous to pin down you could take famine in Africa for instance or crop damage driviing up food prices from various weather related events globally such as flooding, drought, storms. ( These are just for starters here. )

We can get more specific but the point that I'm trying to establish here is the sweep and accelerated rate of change and the growth taking place with it's impact on all cultures in a number of different ways. What the demands that are being asked from them to adapt are is another aspect; and the after-effects as well as the benefits that are the results.

I want to stop for a moment here to be sure this is not steering too far off topic. Because from Joe's lecture to here; from East meets West; you have this kind of collision of 2 different mindsets in a dance with each other. And this new dynamic that has evolved is an interplay of both and a third coming together-with effect instead of just conflict against; and it's results are now engaged in a new and different awareness because the world is more involved. It's watching together in the moment. More like a square dance or folk dance with everybody dancing together in a group if you will; than a waltz of a separate pair of individuals;( if that makes any sense ). This may be a bit convoluted so I'll just say a larger dimension of awareness. I think it's kind of like the mind-at-large concept Joe mentions if I understand correctly. Bodhibliss or Clemsy or some of the staff or other associates may have thoughts here. ( But this is the kind of impression that I see developing now. )

And to sum up; Joe talks about things are happening so fast that the myths can't constilate and integrate the symbols to deliever it's message anymore because of this rapid change. It's target now has to include the whole planet of humanity. The old model has been outgrown and needs a new one to meet this larger requirement. So in the meantime here we are as kind of singular agents if you will; kind of making it up on our own as we go along; drawing from all the insights of the various disciplines; ( plus maybe a few new insights from science or something else down the road ). So we are in a kind of freefall as he puts it! As far as the future goes we just don't know what's ahead; so what will be asked is probabaly going to stretch us in ways we have never known. But there will also probably be dimensions explored we have never imagined as well. ( Pretty big stuff but: " The Greatest Ever " as he put it! )


That's kind of my take so far. ( I hope this meets the topic guideline and that it is helpful. )


Cheers :)
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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