Lecture I.3.1 - Interpreting Oriental Myth

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Lecture I.3.1 - Interpreting Oriental Myth

Post by Clemsy »

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Lecture I.3.1 - Interpreting Oriental Myth
The whole point of the Oriental wisdom and mythic themes is that we are not in exile, but that the god is within you. You can’t be exiled from it. All that can happen is that you don’t know it—that you don’t realize it, that you haven’t found a way to open your consciousness to this presence, which is right within you. -- Joseph Campbell

In this talk, Joseph Campbell explores the fascinating differences between western belief systems and the wisdom of the Orient. In the West, there is an emphasis on humanity’s exile from the Garden of Eden and, hence, on our separation from God. In Oriental mythic traditions, however, there was no exile and, moreover, one can never be separate from God, because God is within every soul. Problems of alienation arise only when one has not opened up to a realization of the God consciousness within them.
Download the lecture: HERE
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

Ercan2121
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Post by Ercan2121 »

Joseph Campbell did a hard job because he made Oriental philosopy more or less
intelligible for people living in modern West :)

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Post by CarmelaBear »

For Westerners, the biblical account of the Garden of Eden poses the problem of exile from the Kingdom of God. It is partly about sin, but it's mostly about death, which appears to be a permenent exile for the individual. :arrow:

Comes now, the Saviour, a Christ who was the resurrected sun god who, through his leaving, plunges us into the darkness of death, and then, miraculously, by entering the underworld and emerging once again at dawn, comes back to life again and sheds the rays of mercy and goodness over those who follow Him and believe in His power to bring the light of our lives back for good. :idea:

Lo and behold, however, there is another garden. In Israel, in addition to the biblical garden, one can find a mountain known in Hebrew as the Garden of God, or Mount Carmel. It is not in Eden and it is not all lush and bountiful. It's in a desolate desert region, where the servants of God all make exclusive claims to the same sacred turf.

If the Garden of God had remained simply a mountain, it would not have given rise to yet another myth about the garden. Instead, through the tale of a lost daughter of Adam and Eve, the plot thickens.

It seems that a girlie girl was born into the world. Her genetic ancestors included folks who claimed to be offspring of the founder of the original nation of Israel, publishers and promoters of the Garden of Eden story. By the time g-g was born, through a number of historical twists and turns, her Jewish ancestors had long before been transformed into Christians who followed the Pope in Rome and called themselves Catholics (or Universals). The female child had Catholic parents who gave her two names at birth and let her grandmother give her a third name at baptism, which is a sacramental ritual regarded by believers as a sacred birth.

One of g-g's birth names was the one given to the mother of the famous and mythical Christ, a Spanish version of the Hebrew word for a dawn star, "Maria". The other birth name was for a saint portrayed with reverence in a smash Hollywood motion picture, the "Song of Bernadette", a chick flick about a French g-g who saw a vision of the ghost of Mary in a grotto near her peasant village.

So, her birth names were Maria Bernadette. The third given name was the baptismal one, and, surprise-surpirse, it was one of the many titles for the mother of the Christ, one that came from a dream related by a Saint Simon Stock of merry old England. He had a dream of Mary atop Mount Carmel in Israel, and the lady he saw in his dream was named by the Universals, Our Lady of Mount Carmel. The Spanish version of this name is "Carmela", and no one in the baptized g-g's family was aware of the etymology of the root word of that name. Unwittingly, the Universals who name their babies after Our Lady of Mount Carmel are naming them "Garden of God".

Oopsie!..... :roll:

It follows that when the girlie girl was in her mid-twenties and a student at a national school of American law, (geographically represented by a quota of students from all across the land of the United States), she embarked upon an earnest quest for the etymology of her baptismal name, and discovered it's Hebrew roots.

She thought, "Wait a minute. Whether my religious predecessors were bumped from the Garden of Eden or not, I'm not in exile from any old sacred garden, because my sacred name is Garden of God. As an American citizen, I believe I am equal to all the other citizens of America, and as a baptized Universal, I believe I am equal to all the other Universals, universally. If I'm the Garden, then everyone is the Garden. If we ARE the frikken Garden, then we don't have to be concerned with being in or out of it."

We're IT, and it seemed to the g-g that this was probably a general principle based not on membership in a nation-state or a religious organization, but on the nature of being.

She felt deeply certain of her life and death intuitions, but she thought a more rational approach made these intuitions seem a bit balmy.

By and by, the girlie girl eventually came upon the writings of Joseph Campbell, where she recognized these ideas and realized that for people of the Orient, folks had figured this out a long time ago without baptisms or Bible stories. As time's winged chariot drew closer to the g-g and kinda pulled alongside of her, she would learn that through her mother's genes, she is a descendant of Asians who knew of the mystery of how we are all transcendent of ourselves.

She thought, "OMG!" .... :shock:

She also thought, "The Self is a bit of a problem, because it appears to be permanently trapped in a time and space of only three dimensions, but Transcendence is not much more clear for being infinite and without a frame of reference from which my feeble mind can begin anything vaguely resembling comprehension."

So, the story of the g-g is how one Westerner discovered the Garden Within, and how she concluded that it is only the beginning,

....and she lived happily ever after..... 8)

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

Ercan2121
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Post by Ercan2121 »

Let me add then a passage from Mircea Eliade about the first impressions of a Westerner in an Oriental market :-)
'In our two free evenings, along with Evelyn and Joe Kitagawa, Zwi Werbloski, and Joseph Campbell, we visited the Ginza, the most picturesque quarter of Tokyo, lighted like a fairyland with inumerable lanterns of many colors. Sometimes we would enter a shop and even before we could ask the price of an object -a doll, a kimono, a toy- the shopkeeper would offer us a gift. We were happy whenever, using English, we were able to make ourselves understood. The politeness and the general conduct of Japanese has, certainly, a ritual origin. That is why I felt so awkward (so “barbarian”) when, in the absence of Joe Kitagawa, I didn't know how to conduct myself'
from the Autobiography of Mircea Eliade

Ercan2121
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Post by Ercan2121 »

Eliade also narrates the funny anecdote in PoM;
'Turning to Hirai, a philosopher in our group said, “I look at the temple, I watch the ceremonies and the dancers, I admire the costumes and the politeness of the priests, but I don't understand the theology implied in Shintoism. After a few moment's reflection Hirai replied smiling, “We don't have theology, we dance!”

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Post by CarmelaBear »

Ercan2121 wrote:Let me add then a passage from Mircea Eliade about the first impressions of a Westerner in an Oriental market :-)
'In our two free evenings, along with Evelyn and Joe Kitagawa, Zwi Werbloski, and Joseph Campbell, we visited the Ginza, the most picturesque quarter of Tokyo, lighted like a fairyland with inumerable lanterns of many colors. Sometimes we would enter a shop and even before we could ask the price of an object -a doll, a kimono, a toy- the shopkeeper would offer us a gift. We were happy whenever, using English, we were able to make ourselves understood. The politeness and the general conduct of Japanese has, certainly, a ritual origin. That is why I felt so awkward (so “barbarian”) when, in the absence of Joe Kitagawa, I didn't know how to conduct myself'
from the Autobiography of Mircea Eliade
Wonderful anecdote.

I once held a summer job for a Japanese bank, the Bank of Tokyo Trust Company in New York City. My job was a humble one, and I recall being treated with deference in spite of my lowly status as a New Accounts Clerk. The office was located in the Waldorf Astoria Building, my desk was on the banking floor, a huge mahogany thing that swallowed me up as my 78 pound person sat quietly with her typewriter and papers in nearly constant use. My name was engraved in neat black lettering on a silver nameplate.

The deference and respect I enjoyed was obviously of ritual origin. I remember that when our branch earned profits over one billion dollars in that year (1973), the employees gathered before a sumptuous buffet prepared by the hotel, and the executives toasted to the success of the operation and the good work of all the staff.

The banking was conducted with ritual precision and humility I had never witnessed before and I would never see again. My customer file included the most famous Japanese family names that have become known through corporate brands flooding our American markets.

The Eastern way can leave the Western mind in awe.

~
Once in a while a door opens, and let's in the future. --- Graham Greene

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Post by JamesN. »

Ercan, and CarmelaBear, Excellent points on oriental cultural and manners. We in the modern world of so called technical enlightenment have so much to learn from insights like this. Thank you

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Post by Ercan2121 »

JamesN. wrote:Ercan, and CarmelaBear, Excellent points on oriental cultural and manners. We in the modern world of so called technical enlightenment have so much to learn from insights like this. Thank you
One planet, dear James, we all need to understand each other. JC calls this
'to be a Frenchman and a human being' at the same time. Thanks for extraordinary
feedback!

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Post by Ercan2121 »

Without forgetting, by the way, that this world
also needs philosophers and that West cannot
make without them.
There are lessons to take from Shinto priests and
from philosophers as well.

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Post by Nermin »

JamesN. wrote:Ercan, and CarmelaBear, Excellent points on oriental cultural and manners. We in the modern world of so called technical enlightenment have so much to learn from insights like this. Thank you
What we need is balance, I think. A balance between Eastern and Western values
that governed generations. Thank you all, my friends :)

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Post by Ercan2121 »

Nermin wrote:
JamesN. wrote:Ercan, and CarmelaBear, Excellent points on oriental cultural and manners. We in the modern world of so called technical enlightenment have so much to learn from insights like this. Thank you
What we need is balance, I think. A balance between Eastern and Western values
that governed generations. Thank you all, my friends :)
Presently, i'm busy trying to balance Campbell and Jung with Mircea Eliade's work.
Certainly, that's not a claim but only some humble effort to approach the bigger
picture :idea:

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