Can Christianity be recreated to work as a metaphor ?

What needs do mythology and religion serve in today's world and in ancient times? Here we discuss the relationship between mythology, religion and science from mythological, religious and philosophical viewpoints.

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Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

youkrst wrote:viva la metaphor!
This made me smile, I like it. :)

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

Douglas B. Clark
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Post by Douglas B. Clark »

youkrst wrote:
wooohooo! yes to continue in esoteric christian parlance "first that which is natural then that which is spiritual" first the child then the man. first the milk then the meat (all metaphoric) vegetarians please choose another metaphor :lol:
This brings us back to the thoughts of Krugers who started this topic:
I wonder if anyone has used Joseph Campbell views of Christianity as a powerful metaphor and myth to create a church?
To create a church based on metaphor is an oxymoron. First of all the word church simply means, called out ones. It speaks of those who have been called out of the outer world of literalism into an inner world of substance. The way the word church is commonly used today to refers to an organization rather than a living experience that is birthed out of wholeness.

It seems we all start out like Neo, living in the matrix with no idea that the world around us is actually made up of things that represent a higher order. When our adventure begins our eyes slowly open to the real world and we begin to see the outer life is really a symbolic representation of a inner life.

It would be nice if we could take everyone with us on this journey and every eye could see the symbolism that surrounds us but it doesn't seem to happen that way. We all have our role to play in order for the drama to unfold. What a boring story it would have been if Pharaoh had released the Israelites the first time Moses said, "Let my people go."
yes i sense we are of one mind in these matters Douglas.


It is a nice reality check when we have the opportunity to compare notes with others who may be on a similar journey and understand the same language. :)

youkrst
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Post by youkrst »

sometimes i feel like the prime mover of all things is situated at the very core of my being and i feel the POWER of transcendence emanating in ripples of light through my entire being.

they say there are no words but goddammit i'm going to try.

sometimes i feel like there is no division, and my future self is going to break through ten dimensions just to tell me it's all going to work out fine, in fact it already has, i just dont know it, yet.

sometimes i can feel joy the size of supernova rocking me out of death and into life like i'm in the slingshot of the gods.

of course then it's back to the coal face to win the coal, yes to fight for it and win, fair and square on it's own terms, no more time to waste, back to the relentless search for anything (even if it's nothing) that will help transform me into the image of my future self.

then you look around and see, many others, who also have the one at the heart of their being, who also know what it is i'm talking about..who are also glorious manifestations of the good, the one, or whatever metaphor they specialise in, whose reference is always to the same, who can teach the things not known by simply existing.

life the limitless treasure found in a dustbin, heaven in a halfwit.

and well it's all too much, it's like trying to move a mountain with a wheelbarrow the poor barrow shudders and shakes under the sheer load of treasure but somehow against all odds and all adversity bears up..

to hear 1000 conversations simultaneously and be able to comfortably follow with exactitude all of them at once.

to deeply appreciate all things as part of the wonderful unfoldment of the mystery in matter bringing forth it's offspring.

all in all

man i could use a beer about now. i am unaware of any obstacle between me and life and god will help the first person who presents one.

hell that was a poor effort, how about these apples

If you hear somebody knockin' on your door
If you see somebody crawlin' across the floor
Baby it'll be me, I'll be lookin' for you
And if you see somebody climbin' up a telegraph pole
If you find a new lump in your sugar bowl
Baby it'll be me, and I'll be looking for you

or how about

You‘re my world, you‘re every breath I take
You‘re my world, you're every move I make
Other eyes see the stars up in the skies
But for me they shine within your eyes

yabba dabba doooooo!

Douglas B. Clark
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Post by Douglas B. Clark »

youkrst wrote:
man i could use a beer about now.


It doesn't get any more profound than that! :)
If you hear somebody knockin' on your door
If you see somebody crawlin' across the floor
Baby it'll be me, I'll be lookin' for you
And if you see somebody climbin' up a telegraph pole
If you find a new lump in your sugar bowl
Baby it'll be me, and I'll be looking for you

or how about

You‘re my world, you‘re every breath I take
You‘re my world, you're every move I make
Other eyes see the stars up in the skies
But for me they shine within your eyes

yabba dabba doooooo!


Hmmm? So does this mean when you are not having conversations of a higher order that you are a beer drinking songwriter? :wink:

youkrst
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Post by youkrst »

:lol:

jazzier than the average bear :wink:

but damn it's good to be in good company :D

Douglas B. Clark
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Post by Douglas B. Clark »

youkrst wrote::lol:

jazzier than the average bear :wink:

but damn it's good to be in good company :D
Now I am confused. I'm having visions of both Fred Flintstone and Yogi the bear! :lol:

In all seriousness I look forward to hearing more about your journey. :)

youkrst
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Post by youkrst »

Now I am confused. I'm having visions of both Fred Flintstone and Yogi the bear!
:D my bad entirely Douglas, i'm afraid i mixed my metaphors, but in this case it kinda worked!

PS: that loop from your webpage is gently lapping at my ears as i sit here typing, i will investigate the site more thoroughly.

Douglas B. Clark
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Post by Douglas B. Clark »

youkrst wrote::lol:

jazzier than the average bear :wink:

but damn it's good to be in good company :D
Yes, good company indeed and a forum to share ideas in a civilized manner. Who could ask for anything more! :)

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Post by charlesupton »

My wife Jenny says: "Christianity was understood as a metaphor from day one" -- by the "pneumatics", that is, not the "psychics" or the "hylics". It was a metaphor that was lived out in the flesh, as all metaphors (for good or ill) ultimately are. Jenny says: "Go back to the medieval concept of the 4 levels of meaning: literal, moral, allegorical, amd anagogical (mystical)," There is ABYSMAL IGNORANCE of the Christian tradition in today's world; don't try to re-invent it until you first understand it. Read Dante, Eckhart, Augustine, Aquinas, Bonaventure, Scotus Eriugena, Bernard, Maximos the Confessor, Dionysius the Areopagite, Simeon the New Theologian, Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory Nazianzen, Gregory Palamas, , the Philokalia, etc. etc. etc. they will wipe the idea of an unsophisticated, literalistic Christianity out of your mind forever.

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Post by Douglas B. Clark »

snip
charlesupton wrote:they will wipe the idea of an unsophisticated, literalistic Christianity out of your mind forever.
The idea of a literalistic Christianity was wiped out of my mind through trial and error.

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Post by Clemsy »

Mine was wiped out by thinking for myself. It really didn't take much. I simply compared what Christ said to what I was told he meant. The message of Christ is really very simple, after all. It's the stories and imagery that grew up around it, the stuff of myth as it were, that requires careful meditation.

And for that, all one needs to know is what a metaphor is. :-)
Give me stories before I go mad! ~Andreas

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Post by Evinnra »

charlesupton wrote:My wife Jenny says: "Christianity was understood as a metaphor from day one" -- by the "pneumatics", that is, not the "psychics" or the "hylics". It was a metaphor that was lived out in the flesh, as all metaphors (for good or ill) ultimately are. Jenny says: "Go back to the medieval concept of the 4 levels of meaning: literal, moral, allegorical, amd anagogical (mystical)," There is ABYSMAL IGNORANCE of the Christian tradition in today's world; don't try to re-invent it until you first understand it. Read Dante, Eckhart, Augustine, Aquinas, Bonaventure, Scotus Eriugena, Bernard, Maximos the Confessor, Dionysius the Areopagite, Simeon the New Theologian, Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory Nazianzen, Gregory Palamas, , the Philokalia, etc. etc. etc. they will wipe the idea of an unsophisticated, literalistic Christianity out of your mind forever.
Charles, nice to meet you, and I am in full agreement with your wife. 8)
'A fish popped out of the water only to be recaptured again. It is as I, a slave to all yet free of everything.'
http://evinnra-evinnra.blogspot.com

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Post by Engelberger »

Although a latecomer, I've enjoyed reading through this thread.

Joe C. brought me back to Christianity. Like him, I was raised Roman Catholic and left that church. After participating in various denominations (UU, liberal Baptist, Congregationalist), I've found the Episcopal Church to be he most Campbell-like in its vision.

You may recall that Joe famously criticized the Vatican II decision to have the priest face the congregation when consecrating the Eucharist as if it were a "cooking show." Every Sunday, my Episcopal priest enacts the ancient ritual with her back turned to the congregation, symbolically leading the congregation in collectively addressing God. In terms of ritual, mysticism, and mythology, the Episcopal Church hews closely to tradition. At the same time, its members are theologically diverse in a way not possible in the Roman version of the catholic faith, with its voluminous and detailed catechism, or in literalistic Protestant churches. There is a high proportion of Episcopalians who have a consciously metaphorical approach to religion.

So going back to the very first post on this thread, I think there are already churches out there (including but surely not limited to the Episcopal Church) that do consciously build their "religion" on a metaphorical/mystical understanding of Christ and the Christian tradition. I agree with charlesupton's suggestion that the public tends to be ignorant of the depth of Christianity and the range of ways to be Christian.

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Post by dreamflower68 »

Newbie here ... so glad to see that last post, Engelberger. So I'm not the only citizen of the US that sees the mythology of Christianity (I mention it specifically because it is the prevailing belief system where I live in the Southeastern US) but still wants to go to church somewhere so I can worship God? BTW, I was raised RC, had a life crisis in which I re-examined EVERYTHING, and ended up leaving church because it felt like a lie to me. My husband introduced me to Joseph Campbell, one of the many things for which I am grateful to him. But I have been missing group worship. For those who don't care for that, great. But I feel drawn to it. Please don't hurt me for saying that, everybody.

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Post by Cindy B. »

Welcome dreamflower68!

Have you considered churches that practice Unitarian Universalism?

And please rest assured that JCF is one of the last organizations to ever disparage an associate's spiritual needs. :)

Cindy
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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