Jung (In The Weeds): Part Three

Do you have a conversation topic that doesn't seem to fit any of the other conversations? Here is where we discuss ANYTHING about Joseph Campbell, comparative mythology, and more!

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Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

James wrote:I have finally gotten a personal copy of Stephen Larsen's: " The Mythic Imagination " which is providing some help in bridging some gray areas. As he was a student of Joe's you can really see in his presentation how some of the theme's of Jung and Campbell he offers coincide and connect with how they might relate to the individual being able to begin to understand their own " personal cosmology ". ( Or put another way ); it provides some " helpful tools " in not only recognizing one's own personal myth but how this " self-realization " might be creatively utilized in this pursuit.

( I know you have been busy but in the " Marga " thread you mentioned you had read it and were getting a copy. Do you have any insights you think might be of interest? ) :)
Yes, James, some time ago I got another copy, but I've not reread it from cover to cover. And given what I know of your own journey, Larsen's book is an excellent resource for you.

As for offering "insights" of my own regarding this work, goodness! Larsen's a Campbellian scholar, a trained Jungian analyst, and an expert mythologist... For myself as much as for you and others who visit this board, it's a resource worth studying time and again as one's personal journey and mythology unfold.

:)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by JamesN. »

Cindy B. wrote:
James wrote:I have finally gotten a personal copy of Stephen Larsen's: " The Mythic Imagination " which is providing some help in bridging some gray areas. As he was a student of Joe's you can really see in his presentation how some of the theme's of Jung and Campbell he offers coincide and connect with how they might relate to the individual being able to begin to understand their own " personal cosmology ". ( Or put another way ); it provides some " helpful tools " in not only recognizing one's own personal myth but how this " self-realization " might be creatively utilized in this pursuit.

( I know you have been busy but in the " Marga " thread you mentioned you had read it and were getting a copy. Do you have any insights you think might be of interest? ) :)
Yes, James, some time ago I got another copy, but I've not reread it from cover to cover. And given what I know of your own journey, Larsen's book is an excellent resource for you.

As for offering "insights" of my own regarding this work, goodness! Larsen's a Campbellian scholar, a trained Jungian analyst, and an expert mythologist... For myself as much as for you and others who visit this board, it's a resource worth studying time and again as one's personal journey and mythology unfold.

:)

Cindy thank you for your thoughtful feedback on this. And at the risk of over-emphasizing or overstating the obvious I would just like to say; that were it not for your " absolute commitment and tireless efforts " for so many in these forums to make Jung's work accessible this conversation for me would not even have been possible.
Your very special talent and ability to help simplify; interpret; and make the understanding of these complex inter-relations " available " are invaluable. Especially given the fact that we as human beings are under the influence of these instinctual processes and that they are an integral part of the life stages we will experience. ( And if I may be allowed; your ongoing efforts to address these issues for many of us I think represent: " A candle in the dark ". ) :idea:
This is extremely tough and difficult material to apprehend; and the " value " in what you bring cannot be said enough in helping others to absorb and integrate this knowledge that does so very much in the relief for those who have long suffered from the grip and turmoil of their own inner struggles brought about not only by societal misunderstanding but by the helplessness of their own lack of knowledge to heal themselves which " you " help provide.


( Now back to our regular scheduled programing. :P )
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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Post by JamesN. »

BTW since we are talking about " Shadow " at the moment here are a couple of Joseph Campbell quotes from Dan Gronwald's: " Mythic Dreams " site that are interesting:

http://mythicdreams.org/campbell-on-shadow/

http://mythicdreams.org/campbell-on-shadow-contd/
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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Re: The Shadow/Unconsciousnes (Part 2)

Post by Cindy B. »

James and Andreas,

The outside links that you offered on the shadow are keepers. 8)

And since the topic has come up again, I'm going to offer again this easy-to-understand lecture transcript on projection. The process of projection is part and parcel of our psychological lives, and a basic understanding of this process at the personal level is essential to recognizing the shadow and its implications: All of Life Is a Projection. As Jung said, "We are steeped in a world that was created by our own psyche."

Later!


P.S. to James. And thank you again for the kind words directed my way. I'm glad to share when I can. No doubt you would do the same for me were I to decide to take up percussion studies in my old age. It would be best, I think, that we start with the triangle... :)
Last edited by Cindy B. on Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by JamesN. »

Cindy; truly what a great article and really helps to utilize what we've been discussing. It reminds me of: ( " the key that turns the tumblers of a lock that opens the door " ). Thank you so very much for " this particular piece " was extremely helpful. :idea:

These discussions are really making the struggle with this material so much easier and are very appreciated.

Cheers :D
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

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Post by Cindy B. »

:)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by nandu »

Back from leave, Cindy ma'am? Can I join the class? (Sorry, I was playing hooky!)

:lol:

Nandu.
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu

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Post by Cindy B. »

Hello, Nandu. You and yours have been doing well, I hope. :)

Yes, my leave seems to be over, and for a long while with a bit of luck in the mix. And for the near future, we'll keep to Jungian Basics and what's basic for me. I have college studies now, too, and still only so much mental energy to spread around. Things will improve, though, as the process plays out. (Note to self: Patience. :wink: )

So is this recess, Nandu, or might you stay for a while?

Later!
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by nandu »

I don't know, Cindy. I'm now writing a blog weekly, plus putting up book reviews on Goodreads, plus work, so I'm rather tight. What I think is I will restrict myself to this thread for the time being, and try to learn something.

Self and family have been doing well, thanks for asking! :)

Nandu.
Loka Samastha Sukhino Bhavanthu

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Post by Cindy B. »

I hear you, Nandu, and the work sounds cool. Enjoy! :)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by JamesN. »

Cindy B. wrote:
James wrote:I have finally gotten a personal copy of Stephen Larsen's: " The Mythic Imagination " which is providing some help in bridging some gray areas. As he was a student of Joe's you can really see in his presentation how some of the theme's of Jung and Campbell he offers coincide and connect with how they might relate to the individual being able to begin to understand their own " personal cosmology ". ( Or put another way ); it provides some " helpful tools " in not only recognizing one's own personal myth but how this " self-realization " might be creatively utilized in this pursuit.

( I know you have been busy but in the " Marga " thread you mentioned you had read it and were getting a copy. Do you have any insights you think might be of interest? ) :)
Yes, James, some time ago I got another copy, but I've not reread it from cover to cover. And given what I know of your own journey, Larsen's book is an excellent resource for you.

As for offering "insights" of my own regarding this work, goodness! Larsen's a Campbellian scholar, a trained Jungian analyst, and an expert mythologist... For myself as much as for you and others who visit this board, it's a resource worth studying time and again as one's personal journey and mythology unfold.

:)

Hey Cindy; As I am now just getting back into this thread I've been reading through Larsen's chapter on " Personal Myth "; ( pages 12 - 19 ); and came across the term " Rhizome " and thought it might be helpful in discussing this relationship within the understanding of what a ( personal myth ) actually is. Here is the quote of Jung's as he was exploring his own individual personal myth:
" I simply had to know what unconscious or preconscious myth was actually forming me, from what rhizome I sprang. "
The quote he is known for is:
'Life has always seemed to me like a plant that lives on its rhizome. Its true life is invisible, hidden in the rhizome.
____________________________________________________________________



Also I came across this really cool Wikiquote page on Carl Jung I thought everyone might enjoy:

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Carl_Jung


I liked this one: " Your vision will become clear only when you look into your heart ... Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens. "



( Nandu; welcome back our " Keralian " friend. :) )
What do I know? - Michael de Montaigne

Cindy B.
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Post by Cindy B. »

These days, James, instead of "rhizome," Jung might've made an analogy to DNA. ;) What eventually came of such musings and psychological exploration were the concepts of the collective unconscious and Self.

And that particular Jung quote is one of his best known. 8)
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by JamesN. »

Cindy B. wrote:These days, James, instead of "rhizome," Jung might've made an analogy to DNA. ;) What eventually came of such musings and psychological exploration were the concepts of the collective unconscious and Self.

And that particular Jung quote is one of his best known. 8)

Hey Cindy. Please forgive the ambiguity on my part here for what I should have clarified better was ( Stephen Larsen's ) intent with the use of the quote in reference to a clearer understanding of what a personal myth actually ( is ) and it's role; ( for in the next paragraph on page 13 he writes ):

Larsen:
" Jung searched all his life in the mythic depths. His question also brings up the " personal equation. " Jung here was assuming that myth has a prior and seemingly casual relation to human ( his own ) existence. The " rhizome," he implied, is the meaning - creating root of our being in the world. The mythic pattern originates from behind and beneath us, as it were, in the " transpersonal " realm, yet is the key to our personal existence. "
( I'm still not quite up to speed from being ill yet; but I'm getting a little better every day. ) And your support in understanding these concepts provides tremendous help in putting the pieces of the mechanism together; ( as it were ); in the effort of comprehending the psyche of this complex entity of what we call a human being. )


Merci Madame 8)


Addendum: ( I just thought of an interesting example that might better describe what I am trying to get at with this. ) It is spring and a mocking bird is singing it's song outside one's window. The point is not " where " the song comes from inside the bird's desire to express itself; but " what " actually generates the song itself from within the bird's nature. ( Joseph metaphorically might have even named this as " the song " itself. ) :idea:
Last edited by JamesN. on Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Cindy B. »

Larsen has depicted Jung's early process and musings with the language he chose to quote--"rhizome"--I recognize it. If you follow that word trail, James, as I already indicated, you'll end up here --> the collective unconscious and Self. It was a passing analogy that Jung made, and in his final scheme of things, nary a concept of the rhizome. :wink: What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that I wouldn't devote a lot of study time to Jung's use of that particular term.

:)


P.S. Still resting, I hope.
If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s. --Jung

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Post by JamesN. »

Cindy B. wrote:Larsen has depicted Jung's early process and musings with the language he chose to quote--"rhizome"--I recognize it. If you follow that word trail, James, as I already indicated, you'll end up here --> the collective unconscious and Self. It was a passing analogy that Jung made, and in his final scheme of things, nary a concept of the rhizome. :wink: What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that I wouldn't devote a lot of study time to Jung's use of this particular term.

:)
Cindy thanks for your insight here. What my point is within this context is not so much the term: " Rhizome "; but indeed as you are referencing as to the " collective unconscious " the concept of the role of the " Personal Myth ". Not just where it comes from; but in a more contemporary or laymen's interpretation:
Addendum: ( I just thought of an interesting example that might better describe what I am trying to get at with this. ) It is spring and a mocking bird is singing it's song outside one's window. The point is not " where " the song comes from inside the bird's desire to express itself; but " what " actually generates the song itself from within the bird's nature. ( Joseph metaphorically might have even named this as " the song " itself. ) :wink:
I'm certainly not in disagreement with what your are saying; I'm just trying to get at something Larsen seems to be pointing out; ( which he develops to a greater degree further into the chapter ). Your reference if I understand correctly; of the interplay of the self and the collective unconscious is of course dead center. The direction I trying to get at is more connected to the concept of an individual's relationship to their own " internal dynamic " that has been fragmented in it's relationship to the outside world; and Larsen seems to be defining this in a more mythical instead of ( clinical ) vernacular or costume; as it were. The raising of the individual's consciousness to where they can establish a dialogue between the conscious-self and the subconscious; ( again if I understand this correctly ); would be part of the goal; along with the realizations that the process of individuation might provide; ( rough translation mine ). :lol:

At any rate we may be saying the same thing to some degree here; but you are more qualified on this than I am. :wink:

What I think is particularly interesting about Larsen as you pointed out about his background; is that he is able to connect, interpret, and synthesize the various viewpoints of Campbell, academia, and the mythological within a unified sense that otherwise would be difficult for most " layfolk " to access. But as you have also stressed it is important to be clear in correctly identifying what the concepts and their relationships are. ( Sooooo again; if I am not correct I offer my apologies for any misunderstanding on this. :? )


( And BTW yes I have been resting and thank you very much for asking. :) )


PS. I tried to " integrate " the addendum timing into this reply from my earlier post as we were both posting at the same time. :roll:
Last edited by JamesN. on Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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